JOURNALIST: Now on the line is the Finance Minister and also former Minister for the Environment, Penny Wong, who joins us now. Many thanks for your time Penny.
WONG: Good to speak with you.
JOURNALIST: These documents I know were released to the Treasurer in February this year. Why has it taken so long for these to come to light?
WONG: These have come out as a result of a Freedom of Information request. We put in place more open and transparent arrangements under Freedom of Information so people can seek these sorts of documents, and these documents have been released under that.
What they show is what the Governments been saying; that the most cost-effective, the cheapest and most effective way of dealing with climate change is to put a price on carbon.
JOURNALIST: It suggested that the Government at around $30 a tonne could raise something of the order of $10 billion a year as a result of the carbon tax. Now the Government also has said that every dollar of that will then be handed out in compensation either to households and/or to businesses that are big emitters but also seen to be the important emitters of carbon dioxide. Is it going to be tough for the Government to figure out which companies are going to be given this compensation and which are not?
WONG: Its very important, I think, for your listeners to be clear that what is being talked about in these documents is just scoping a range of possible options that the Government was wanting some advice on. The Government has not made any decision about price. The Government has not made any final decision about assistance.
So I think thats a very important thing to start with because I know the Opposition will be running off with whatever figure they can to try and scare people. I want to emphasise again there has been no decision about price or the assistance measures.
What we have said is that we will price carbon by taxing polluters; making them pay for every tonne of carbon pollution they emit. We then will use every cent we raise from that to help Australian households and industry to make the transition to a clean energy economy.
JOURNALIST: I was just making some projections on employment because there is also inside this document assumptions made about the amount of employment. And it said that it will grow by 1.7 million jobs from 2008 to 2020.
But on my trusty spreadsheet looking at population growth in Australia around 2 per cent, thats what its been in the last few years and likely to be in the future and therefore employment growth, it seems as though employment growth should rise during that time regardless of what happens by around 2.5 million jobs. The question is that many big companies have told the Government already that investment may slow and jobs will be lost if a carbon tax does come in place. Is this something also that the Government has to factor in?
WONG: Its an impressive spreadsheet youve got there.
JOURNALIST: Oh its a very impressive spreadsheet, Ive got to tell you.
WONG: (laughs) Lots of zeros in it. Look, we are a Government that has been very focused on supporting jobs. Youll remember in the Global Financial Crisis what was our first priority? It was to keep the economy growing so we could continue to support Australian jobs. Those are our values and thats what we have delivered.
Putting in place a price on carbon is about creating different jobs, about creating new jobs, and about giving businesses in this country an incentive to do things better. To use cleaner energy and to find less polluting ways of doing business, and to produce less polluting goods and services. Thats the incentive.
Now obviously, we will make sure that we transition through that in a way that is sensible; in a way that supports jobs and supports continued growth.
JOURNALIST: The Government needs the Greens, in particular in the Senate, to help it pass its carbon tax legislation. Right now, of course, the Prime Minister and Bob Brown are having conversations about philosophically where both parties are. Do you believe that the current war of words between the two leaders will have any impact on the way in which the legislation might pass through the Parliament and the Senate?
WONG: To get this legislation through we are always going to have to negotiate with the crossbenchers and in the Lower House. That includes, as you know, Mr Windsor and Mr Oakeshott as well as the Greens in the Senate. Thats the way we have to progress our legislation through the Parliament. I think people in federal politics are used to a robust debate. We dont share the views of the Greens on many issues. And I think the Prime Minister is talking about some of the things we dont agree on. One thing we do very much agree on is the need to act on climate change.
JOURNALIST: And to those people who do not believe in the need to act on climate change, and to those people who dont believe that this particular carbon tax is the right way to treat any type of need to address it. So in other words theres two categories of people. Those who dont think its actually necessary at all. And the second lot are those who think action may need to be taken but that a carbon tax is wrong. What do you say to them?
WONG: Well, to the first group I would say, if you look at the science from the worlds most respected scientists who have expertise in the area, what they tell us is that climate change is real. It is occurring now but it will occur even more into the future and it will have substantial effects on the way we live our lives. And Id say, even if you are not entirely convinced surely we would want to make sure we lessen the risk and manage the risk for our children and our grandchildren.
To those who say why is this the best way forward? Id say, look, wed love there to be a way to deal with climate change which was really easy. Im sure everybody would. But the reality is no one has found it. Mr Abbotts policy costs $30 billion out to 2020. That will come out of taxpayers pockets. All the evidence shows that the cheapest, fastest and most effective way to deal with climate change is to do what were proposing to do. And that is to price the thing that is free thats pollution to price the thing that is causing climate change. And thats why we want to push forward with this reform.
JOURNALIST: Finance Minister Penny Wong. As always, we appreciate your time here on Money News. As always I know there will be lots of people, lots of callers who wont necessarily take that view.
WONG: Im sure.
JOURNALIST: But we always appreciate you taking your time out to speak with us as well. Penny Wong, the Finance Minister.
WONG:Good to be with you.
ENDS