JOURNALIST: The Federal Finance Minister is Penny Wong. Good afternoon Senator.
WONG: Good day, how are you?
JOURNALIST: Yeah, very good. Now nice to talk to you. Well get to some of my issues with yesterdays announcement. But first, what exactly is the benefit of trying to crack down on these areas of welfare, specifically about teenage mothers, from the budget perspective?
WONG: I think the statistics tell us what we probably know as well from the people we might know or just thinking about it. That where weve got kids growing up in families where the parent is already on welfare, that the outcomes are not good for the mother and theyre not good for the child. So its in our interests to try to intervene early, to try and get teenage mums engaged so that we can ensure that they have opportunities down the track and their children have opportunities down the track. Thats what this policy is about.
JOURNALIST: So how do we have a situation where today were saying we dont want people to develop a welfare dependence, we want people to move on. But yesterday were saying to 600,000 different families I think that is the number that the Prime Minister used 600,000 families will be given $4000. Some through quirks of the system may get up to $10,000. How is that not, not so much creating welfare dependency, but certainly a form of welfare expectation? You have a baby, $5000. To keep the kids in school, $4000 per year for the final couple of years of their education.
WONG: Well its actually very consistent because what were saying is youve got to make sure you try and get people to stay in school, to stay training, learning. Because we know that means theyre much less likely to end up on welfare, theyre much more likely to get a job. And thats what we want.
So the announcement earlier in the week was saying to families, if your teenager stays in training or at school so they dont leave work, they dont leave school early but actually continue to get the skills they need then we will provide this assistance to help you look after them and support them while theyre doing that. And remember it is means tested so not everyone gets it.
Its the same principle as today where were saying to teenage parents, look, we are going to continue to support you. There is a parenting payment. But the other side of it is, youre going to have to participate, youre going to have to once your child is 12 months old have a participation plan to try and get you either back into school or training and then hopefully get you a job. Its about the long term.
JOURNALIST: Its always dangerous when people use themselves as the primary example. But let me do that for a moment.
WONG: (laughs) Are you using me?
JOURNALIST: No, it will be me, dont worry. You see look, I came from a fairly meagre family. I wont bore you with the details of it, but there was every financial disincentive for me not to finish school. There was every financial disadvantage or disincentive for me to go to university. It was simply my willpower and my parents kicking me in the backside that meant that that happened. I was suspended a couple of times from school. I was not the most pleasant of kids. There was no bribe involved. I just dont understand why when millions of people have been able to overcome the circumstances of the family that they live in be it the outskirts of Sydney, families that have broken up why is there a financial need to do this and not a greater support network? Something thats not about money.
WONG: Thats a credit to you, Paul, and I think what it probably reflects I mean, I dont know you and your family but it probably reflects your values and the values of your family.
And what we need to encourage is those sorts of values. And thats what todays announcement does. It says, look, you are on a parenting payment, you have a young child, but we are going to require you to do these things because we believe its in your interests and the interests of your kids for you to finish your study, do your training and make sure you can get a job down the track.
The sorts of values you talk about, the sort of drive you talk about, is something I wish everybody had. Certainly I always grew up with an expectation that I would go on to finish school, Im going to go to university. But not everybody has that and we need to reach out to those people who we know are on the edges. And we also need to say to them, look, there is a bit of a stick here, we do expect these things. Well give you the support, well give you the help, the childcare with caseworkers to work with you. But we cant just allow a generation of children growing up in jobless families to continue.
JOURNALIST: But isnt the issue though, that if you focus the payments on the parents, that it doesnt change the behaviour of the student. I mean you cant just have the parent thats motivated, it has to be the student. Youre not physically giving the money to the 16, 17 or 18 year old. Youre not physically giving it to the first year apprentice. Youre giving it to their parents who presumably, because they need to be corrected with an amount of money, well the problem is already a lot deeper than just by the time the kid hits 16, 17 and 18.
WONG: Thats true and governments cant sort of wave a magic wand and nor should we and make people think a certain way. But what you can do is set up your social security system with the right incentives and requirements and supports that encourage training and work. And thats what both of these announcements are about. Because we know that if you leave school early, you dont get Year 12. That your chance of being unemployed is much higher and your prospects are much less good. We need to change that.
JOURNALIST: Now we have for weeks and be it politics or whatever but the conversation has been from the Prime Minister directly. Tough decisions are about to be made, theres a serious Budget. Theres a big hole. We need to do things to correct the budget. You introduced a flood tax which at the time I supported because OK, the budget was in serious trouble. We didnt have enough money to pay for the things we were already doing.
Yet this week it was announced that this extra moneys going to be put in the hands of parents to make sure that their kids stay in education; the amount is $4200 for some. The total price I understand is $771 million over five years. Yet when groups like old age pensioners or single pensioners, or widow pensioners, or carers demand a change, the Government either says sorry not this year, theres no budget for it. Or if there is an increase, which there was in 2009, in relative terms its quite meagre compared to a payment of $4000.
As a result, we spoke about this for three hours consistently on the radio yesterday, and Im not one of these blokes that likes to scream into the wind and hope that nothing happens. But people were literally ringing me Senator, and they were crying on the air because they got $5 bucks left at the end of the fortnight. Put simply, why if you have $771 million to spend, didnt you spend it on pensioners?
WONG: We have already as a Government put, you referred to the 2009 increase, which was the largest single dollar increase in the pension that there has been. We did that and we did that because it was the right thing to do. You have to make a judgment about a whole range of priorities. Pensions were a very important decision of the Government in 2009 and they continue to be indexed.
But you also have to look to the longer term. And the longer term is that we want to do what we can to give young Australians the chance to get a job. That means we are going to put in place incentive support and sometimes a bit of discipline to try and make that happen because in the long term, its better for all of us. We all know youre much better off if you able to work, if you are in work. And the society is better off, not just because youre out there doing things but because you are also more able to contribute.
JOURNALIST: But specifically to the question though, I understand the benefits of what you want to do to take care of teenagers. When youre looking at a family, theres so much assistance for kids and mum and dad but theres to be honest in relative terms, little assistance for nanna and poppa, particularly nanna. And a lot of people, and Im just looking at so many emails and its not one of those talkback issues that are a made up thing. People send emails that normally wouldnt use the computer. And they turn around and they write you stories. They tell you about life. Theyre on the widows pension because they didnt work. They didnt work because it was a different era. Theyre now on a widows pension and theyre paying rent that keeps going up. Its not like sure, the 2009 thing was a nice bump but prices and other things have gone up since 2009.
WONG: And all I can say to you Paul again is you have to fund a whole range of priorities. Unfortunately, the budget is limited. You also need to look at what the budget might look like in 5 or 10 or 15 years time. What we call the structural position of the budget. So how many people are we going to have to continue to support? And how much health funding do we need? And all those sorts of things.
JOURNALIST: This is an interesting area though. Because, Ive heard this conversation said again. And it make sense at first and then I started thinking about it. Since 1991 or 1992, people have been forced to pay superannuation. So structurally, there are people that wont be accessing the old age pension.
WONG: Thats right.
JOURNALIST: Because - so thats going to be, thats a lot of people. A lot of people have passed through the system since 1991.
WONG: Remember also, we are an ageing population. And the number of people who will be not working, as opposed to the number of people working will change quite dramatically over my lifetime and your lifetime. It is a wonderful thing that the Labor Government, the previous Labor Government, introduced superannuation and thats why we are also trying to push for increasing that. Because it means we dont have the sort of crises that you see in some countries for example in Europe or the US where their Budget simply wont be able to bear the cost of retirement incomes down the track.
So youre right, it was a very important thing to do and its made a difficult situation better than it would have been. All Im saying to you is that I think this Government has shown its values and its regard for elderly Australians and pensioners by what we have put into the increase in the pension. Not an increase that John Howard ever delivered. That was important. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt also be ensuring we give people the incentive to continue to stay in school and to continue to train. Because in the long term - its in their long term interests and in the long term interests of the community.
JOURNALIST: But Senator look, and this is an old fashioned talkback trick. People have been talking, a lot of people have been calling. Ill put you on hold and Ill let you listen to one of them and you can argue the point back. Matthews in Wollongong. Good afternoon Matthew.
CALLER: Good afternoon, how are you?
JOURNALIST: Very good. The Minister is on the line. Shes the Finance Minister, shes in the room when she makes the decisions. The failures are both up. Matthew what do you want to say?
CALLER: OK, Id like to say first of all, I am a Labor supporter. Two, I am absolutely livid, OK, my mother who is still on a widows pension my father died when I was twelve. She gave up numerous amount of things for me so I could have the education and I could actually have money to go out and do what I wanted to.
Now to this day, right, I try to repay her. Not that shes ever asked me to I help her to pay her bills. Lets do something for the people who have actually done something for this country, instead of and I hear from every Government minister is its going to be means tested. Lets face it, the people thats going to get it, everyone is going to be means tested, the people that are going to want to go for this money, theyre going to be lower socio-economic people anyway. So theyre going to get the money.
JOURNALIST: OK, alright Matthew. Ill let the Minister have her say. Dont worry Minister were not going to do this for the next half hour. But I just wanted to have an idea.
WONG: Thats OK. Well Im not quite sure how to respond because I think what Matthew was saying was that he doesnt support us providing additional support to families with teenagers. I know a lot of people who do have teenagers and I think that they do find it sometimes tough to make ends meet, and this is a way in which we can make a contribution. But we are saying, were not going to do that unless your child is in training or at school. And I think thats a good policy outcome.
In terms of teenage parents, well we are not actually paying them more. We are saying if you are on the parenting payment, you do need to make sure you go back to school; well give you the support. But theres a reason we want you to go back to school or to training because thats because we want a better life, better outcomes, better opportunities for you and for your child.
JOURNALIST: Alright Minister, nice to talk to you, lets do it again.
WONG: Yeah, good to speak with you Paul.
JOURNALIST: The Finance Minister, Penny Wong.
Ends