PRESENTER: Well, look its obviously been Federal Budget Week in Canberra and the Treasurer Scott Morrison delivered his first Budget on Tuesday which outlined a 10 year plan to reduce the rate at which companies are taxed in Australia. The argument being that will stimulate the economy and encourage jobs growth. Well, last night, with the exception of the smallest of businesses, the alternative Prime Minister, Bill Shorten, delivered his formal reply to Tuesdays Budget and in a nutshell the Budget is framed around taxing the rich, reintroducing the so called deficit levy on people earning more than $180,000, maintaining the current rate of taxation on big business and using all of that money to inject new life into our schools and hospitals. Penny Wong is the Shadow Minister for Trade and Investment, and she joins us on the line now. Penny, good morning and thanks very much for your time.
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good morning to you both.
PRESENTER: Now, can I just ask from the get go Penny, Im having a few problems just wrapping my head around the logic of what happened in parliament yesterday because Labor - understandably given that the Prime Minister had a shocker in that interview on Sky News you spent the whole day teasing Malcolm Turnbull about the fact that he didnt know how much his company tax reductions were going to cost the budget. Then last night Bill Shorten stood up and said that we are going to save some $49 billion by blocking those tax cuts. If Malcolm Turnbull doesnt know what the figure is, how do you guys know what the figure is?
WONG: Well, were not the Government, but what weve done is weve gone to Parliamentary Budget Office and got some indicative costings. But the point is the Government should be telling Australians how much this is going to cost. The centrepiece of the Budget though is what they call a 10 year enterprise tax plan. Now, if youre putting forward to Australians that here is the centrepiece of my plans for your future - for the countrys future, you reckon should be able to say at least broadly, what its going to cost them. Because what we all have to remember is that tax cuts are to big business and this isnt just for small business, this goes up to businesses with a turnover of $1 billion over the decade. Thats money, effectively, that taxpayers are foregoing, its less money for schools and hospitals. And you know ultimately, youve got to work out what your priorities are and one of the ways of doing that is making
PRESENTER: -Did you provide costing over the forward estimates when you were in Government?
WONG: We handed down the Gonski and NDIS packages. We laid out indicative 10 year plans for those. And, look, youre right Penbo, lets be completely frank here, budgets do look at the forward estimates, thats four years, but if you have got a 10 year plan you should be able to say broadly what sort of cost that will be to the Federal Budget. Particularly when weve got a pretty difficult position in the Federal Budget; weve had the deficit triple under the Government in the last couple of years. And the Government had no trouble, Ill make this point, when they wanted to make a political point about the tobacco tax they had no trouble then putting out a 10 year cost. They just dont want to do it when it doesnt suit them.
PRESENTER: Hey Penny, you said you got your figures last night checked by the Parliamentary Budget Office. Are they the same people who knocked up of the back of a beer-coaster your costings for the tobacco tax? I mean they were-
WONG: -Come on, Penbo.
PRESENTER: But no, thats a fair criticism-
WONG: Youre feeling a bit punchy today.
PRESENTER: No, no, no. Im making the point because we had Albo on the show on Wednesday and his argument was essentially, well, dont blame the Labor Party, these were the figures we got from the Parliamentary Budget Office.
WONG: Well I think-
PRESENTER: -Well, thats your defence on having a $20 billion error.
WONG: Dont you think its pretty unfair talking about beer coasters. I know we all like a drink but look-
PRESENTER: -Well, what other methodology are they using then?
WONG: Well, lets be clear on whats happened on tobacco. And again, lets remember, that attack from the Government, they had to put out a 10 year costing on that and they were pretty happy to do that when it suited them on the company tax. But, look, its a reasonable question. And it is clear is that Treasury and Government have changed their assumptions around the tobacco tax. Now, we dont know how they have done that. Ill ask Treasury that today. What the Parliamentary Budget Office said, very clearly, is they used assumptions that Treasury had previously used. And, thats how they got the costing and they have stood behind that. Now, weve said all along, once the Budget was handed down, and before the election, well ensure all our costings were revised in light of the new bottom line, new parameters, so that is what the assumptions are around growth, unemployment, interest rates and all those sorts of things. But, the Governments attempt to beat up a black hole was a political exercise and it stands in stark contrast to the fact that the Prime Minister wont even tell you what his tax cuts will cost.
PRESENTER: Senator Wong, last night I was taken by the fact that the Opposition Leader referred a couple of times to the NBN and the fact that Malcolm Turnbull delivered a slower NBN and that the Federal Labor would deliver a first rate fibre network. What precisely is Federal Labors policy on the National Broadband Network. because I wasnt aware that an announcement had been made?
WONG: We have said we want to ensure more fibre in the network. And, the NBN is - you know, I was in Estimates yesterday and it was pretty clear the the Coalition Government will hit its cap of how much taxpayer money its prepared to put into the NBN over the next couple of years. Theyre then telling the NBN to go to the market and debt finance. But the reality is, they know thats going to be a problem and theyre already putting in place contingencies around that. So, looking at whether they would have to give a guarantee or put more money in so Malcolm Turnbull has presided over a cost blow-out of the NBN.
PRESENTER: So, how much are you willing to spend to add more fibre to the network?
WONG: We will be saying more about that in the election campaign I am sure. Im sure, Jason Clare will be adding to our announcement on that.
PRESENTER: Hey Penny, Bill Shorten insisted last night that there will still be relief for small businesses with the company tax rate is down to 27.5 per cent for businesses with a turnover of less than $2 million. Im just wondering though, there would be a lot of small to medium businesses in South Australia that arent the Microsofts, you know, theyre not racking in and generating billions and billions of dollars who might be in the, say in the $2 to $5 million dollar bracket, who would love some form of tax relief because it might help them expand. There seems to be a bit of a view on the Labor side at the moment that business doesnt deserve a tax cut because they will just keep the money. Isnt there an economic stimulus argument for taking the brakes off business?
 
WONG: Well, I think this comes down to priorities, because a tax break for business means less money for schools that many people send their kids to, the TAFE system, less money for our health system, for our hospital system. And, thats ultimately, that is what Bill laid out tonight. Were up for a tax cut for small business, businesses that turn over up to $2 million. Were not up for a tax cut that over time climbs to a very large tax cut for very large businesses, a $1 billion turnover a year. And ultimately what were saying is, we know where the budget is, we need to lay out a plan for budget reform thats fair, weve set out $71 billion worth of savings last night, and what we want to do, is put more money into the schools, and universities, apprenticeships, infrastructure. These are the things that will drive more growth down the track.
PRESENTER: Penny just before we let you go, we were laughing earlier in the week about how it takes a special kind of political genius to unite Corey Bernardi and Penny Wong on anything, but that is exactly what Sam Dastyari did with is sledging of Adelaide.
WONG: I read your column. He is pretty good at it isnt he. He is a controversial figure.
PRESENTER: When he come on our show though, he said that you called him into your office and gave him a 20 minute dressing down, told him to pull his head in. What exactly did you say?
WONG: Well, you know, conversations should stay private. Though you should always be aware that Sam is always inclined to a bit of exaggeration, but lets put it this way. I did point out to him that he was a very sore loser.
PRESENTER: Yeah no, he certainly was, but at least he came on air and did a bit of top shelf grovelling.
WONG: He is not bad at grovelling when it gets him out of trouble I reckon.
PRESENTER: Thats right, he wouldnt do a re-enactment again though. Got to leave it there, Penny Wong, Shadow Trade Minister, thanks very much for joining us this morning.
WONG: Good to be with you both.