JOURNALIST: Penny Wong, Minister for Finance Federal Minister for Finance, South Australian Senator, joins us now. Good morning, Minister Wong.
WONG: Good morning to you all.
JOURNALIST: Christopher Pyne joins us, Manager of Opposition Business in the House. Good morning Mr Pyne.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE: Good morning.
JOURNALIST: Senator Wong, if we could begin with you. The front page of The Australian Paul Kelly writes: The unresolvable Thomson affair testifies to a minority government Parliament now tainted beyond repair. What would you say to Paul Kelly and the Australians who agree with him?
WONG: Id ask him to look at some of the other things also in The Australian, which is the report of the OECD which emphasises the strength of the Australian economy and backs in the Governments budget strategy. And, Id ask
JOURNALIST: So youd just say Oh, look over there. Dont look at this, look over there.
WONG: No, I understand the concern people have, and I share that concern about the very serious allegations made in relation to Mr Thomson. But I think its also important to recognise that that is not the only issue that the Parliament and the Government need to be concerned with.
Things like the growth in the economy, jobs for Australians, spreading the benefits of the boom through things like the Schoolkids Bonus; these are important policies which are very relevant to the everyday lives of Australians.
JOURNALIST: Senator, are you able to explain why the Prime Minister says that the course of justice and law should be allowed to take its place with Mr Thomson take its course and yet she doesnt want him back in the Labor caucus? Surely if he was cleared by any proceedings, and there arent any yet, youd welcome him back into the caucus, would you not?
WONG: I think theres different levels here, and certainly the Prime Minister did make a decision, which I think was the right one, that it was in the best interests of the party for Mr Thomson to step aside from the caucus.
But I think there is an important principle here, and no doubt Christopher will disagree with me, that whatever are our personal views about some of the allegations made, we live in a civilised society where there are proper processes, proper authorities who look at evidence and make decisions about how that evidence should be treated, and they make decisions about enforcement. Those authorities are not the Parliament, and
JOURNALIST: However, even if those processes all take place and we already have had a four year investigation by Fair Work Australia, which is one of those bodies even if that takes place and hes found to be totally, absolutely blameless, would he be welcome back into the Labor caucus?
WONG: Lets deal with that if that ever occurs
JOURNALIST: Well, the Prime Minister says no.
WONG: The point is you said something to me in that question which I think is quite important you said that one of those bodies is Fair Work Australia. They have investigated. But the issue is enforcement and penalty, and what enforcement action is taken by authorities, whatever those authorities might be, and obviously in this country we have authorities who handle criminal matters, authorities who might handle civil penalties.
My point is thats not the Parliament. And I for one, whilst I understand the focus on it, Id like to be talking about some the things that do matter to your listeners, which is things like the cost of living and how were addressing some cost of living pressures through our Budget.
JOURNALIST: Before we move on to other topics, Christopher Pyne, how will you respond to Craig Thomsons call to stop acting like some sort of quasi-court, more like a lynch mob, and actually let the proper authorities do the investigations rather than set the Parliament up in that way?
PYNE: Well the Parliament is responsible for determining its own actions and protecting its own integrity. And even Robert Ray, the famous Labor Senator from Victoria who would probably have been something of a mentor for Penny Wong, wrote in 1997 that it was outrageous for anyone to suggest that the Parliament couldnt deal with its own members and in its own way. That is the fundamental Westminster principle.
The Opposition isnt pre-judging any court cases involving the Member for Dobell, Craig Thomson. What we are doing though is weve referred him to the Privileges Committee because we believe that his statement on Monday was deliberately misleading. And the Government supported that reference last night. There is an inconsistency in Penny Wongs argument about Craig Thomson, and Im sure she recognises it but she cant say it, and that is that the Government think that he should be entitled to the presumption of innocence in the Parliament, but not in the caucus. Theyve excluded him from the caucus but theyre hanging onto his vote in the Parliament. And the truth is of course, the only reason theyre doing that is because they have a one vote majority.
JOURNALIST: Christopher Pyne, you are pre-judging him, are you not? I mean, youve said he deliberately misled Parliament.
PYNE: Yes, I did. And in fact I outlined in the Parliament yesterday what I regarded as a very compelling case for where the Member for Dobell has misled the Parliament and now itll be up to the Privileges Committee to examine that. And in fact Robert Oakeshott has placed on the Notice Paper a censure motion of the Member for Dobell. So, the Parliament is doing what it should be doing, which is protecting its own interests, and the Government at every turn since last September has tried to block that happening. But of course the ground is shifting from under them as the crossbenchers find it harder and harder to prop them up.
JOURNALIST: Do you consider yourself very fortunate indeed to have something like this happening? Your critics would say it masks policy nakedness from the Abbott Opposition.
PYNE: No, Im very unhappy this is happening.
JOURNALIST: Really?
PYNE: Im
JOURNALIST: Are you saying that with a straight face?
PYNE: Absolutely, Im very unhappy this is happening.
JOURNALIST: Well, its manna from heaven, is it not?
WONG: Christopher, you know
PYNE: No, Im not
WONG: When was the last time Christopher Youre the Shadow Minister for Education, when was the last time you actually spoke about anything to do with education policy?
PYNE: Thats hilarious. You poor thing, Penny, you should look at my website. I gave a speech for 25 minutes on Monday night to the Australian Christian Schools Association about the Gonski review.
WONG: There is no policy
PYNE: That was two days ago.
WONG: Christopher, the reality is
PYNE: I put out two press releases on education yesterday.
JOURNALIST: Penny Wong?
WONG: Thank you. The reality is Christopher has been the lead attack dog on this issue. He certainly isnt coming up with policy that is about increasing the opportunities for education in this country, unlike the Government which has almost doubled school funding
PYNE: Thats completely false.
WONG: and increased the number of young Australians in university, particularly young Australians from more disadvantaged backgrounds. So my point is, Christopher, I know this is what you only want to talk about
PYNE: Well let me you interrupted me to make this point
JOURNALIST: I think
PYNE: Let me answer the question I was asked by David and Matthew. And the answer to the question is
JOURNALIST: Christopher Pyne, I think we have covered this issue and we havent got a lot of time left to speak to either of you about other matters. If we could move onto something else Senator Wong, Isobel Redmond is on the front page of several papers this morning saying, look, theres not much point in taking a confrontational attitude over the issue of sex discrimination. Rather than taking legal action, if a woman feels as though shes being sexually discriminated, its much better to take an un-confrontational attitude, to try and question people, challenge, but basically just be very, very good at your job.
JOURNALIST: And, if worst comes to worst, just walk away from the job. Get another job.
WONG: Ive never found that simply ignoring it and being silent is the way one can reasonably deal with injustice and prejudice. Now, obviously there are different strategies at different times, but I dont think that the sorts of advances weve seen in terms of having a more equal society would have occurred if people werent prepared to stand up and say, look, this isnt fair.
Thats how Ive always approached these things, personally. And, obviously, sometimes you have to work out how youll handle it sometimes you have a quiet chat as opposed to having a huge public argument, but, I dont think silence in the face of unfairness leads to greater equality.
JOURNALIST: Christopher Pyne?
JOURNALIST: Christopher Pyne, we wouldnt have the Ashby/Slipper affair if somebody had just decided to walk away.
PYNE: Well, I havent seen that report of Isobel Redmonds statement, so its very hard for me to comment on them. I would simply say that in response to the question I was asked earlier, the reason Im unhappy about all of these matters that are swirling around the Parliament is because they damage all politicians and the Parliament. And I wouldve thought Penny Wong would agree with that.
JOURNALIST: Okay. That wasnt the question, though. You cant
PYNE: I cant comment on Isobel Redmonds statement
JOURNALIST: You cant?
PYNE: because I havent seen it.
JOURNALIST: Its half the front page of The Australian. Its the front page of the
PYNE: I havent seen the Australian today. Since I got to work this morning at 6:30am Ive done a Sky television news
JOURNALIST: Ill read it out to you
PYNE: ... Im now doing your interview
JOURNALIST: Ill save you having to read it
PYNE: ... And then Im going off to the next meeting.
JOURNALIST: The front page says one of Australias top female political leaders has told young women facing sex discrimination at work to ignore it and it will just disappear. What do you think of that?
PYNE: Well, I dont have a view on Isobel Redmonds statement until Ive seen exactly what shes said. Im not going to respond to a quote from a newspaper report.
WONG: Could I just add something here? I think, what I would say to any young women listening is that it isnt OK for you to be treated unfairly. And however you want to choose to respond to it and obviously people can take counsel from parents or friends or mentors but I think theres a very important principle here. It isnt OK for people to be treated unfairly because of their gender.
JOURNALIST: Just finally, to both of you, Schapelle Corby. Theres some talk her sentence has been reduced by five years. That would mean on the face of it 2017, I think, she would come back to Australia, maybe earlier. But theres some talk that, with good behaviour and other benefits, she could be home by August. Do you welcome that?
WONG: I do. And I think weve consistently supported her clemency application on humanitarian grounds and, obviously this is a great relief, Im sure, for her and her family. I think that the Foreign Minister will be holding a press conference shortly to discuss this matter further.
JOURNALIST: Christopher Pyne?
JOURNALIST: You have read that story?
PYNE: Well, I was asked about it on Sky, so yes, Im across that. I dont actually read every story about State political matters, youll be surprised to hear.
I do welcome it. The Opposition has had a long-standing position that we think clemency should be extended to Schapelle Corby. And Im very pleased that President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has made that decision. And, hopefully, she comes back sooner rather than later. Obviously, she has been found guilty of a serious crime. Shes serving a significant sentence. But its probably time that she did come home.
JOURNALIST: Christopher Pyne, thanks for your time.
PYNE: Pleasure.
JOURNALIST: And Penny Wong, thank you.
WONG: Thank you all.
ENDS
891 ABC Adelaide with Matthew Abraham and David Bevan - 25/05/2012
25 May 2012
