DENNY: Senator Penny Wong, good morning.
WONG: Good morning.
DENNY: And Christopher Pyne, good morning to you.
PYNE: Good morning Spence. Good morning Penny.
DENNY: Joining us from our studios in Canberra this morning ...
WONG: Yes, were right next to each other, so watch out.
DENNY: Are you two playing nicely?
WONG: So far we are.
PYNE: Were a swords length from each other (laughs).
DENNY: (laughs) Now the breaking news story today and well get to the issue of Fairfax shortly if we can but the breaking news is that Julian Assange is seeking asylum in Ecuador. Whether or not theyll grant that remains to be seen, but the question here is, is the Australian Government doing enough to actually assist Julian Assange? Penny Wong.
WONG: Obviously Mr Assanges decisions, including this decision, are a matter for him. The Australian Government as weve made clear has offered him the same consular assistance that is available to other Australians. And I dont understand there to be any evidence, for example, that theres anything inappropriate in terms of the legal proceedings in the UK to date., But ultimately this is a matter for him.
DENNY: Has he made application to the Australian Government to come home?
WONG: Id have to ask the Foreign Minister to speak to you about that. Hes certainly made public statements about issues. But weve made clear that he is being treated, in terms of the consular assistance available to him, as any other Australian citizen.
DENNY: Chris Pyne, does it seem unusual to you that an Australian national would be seeking asylum in South America?
PYNE: Well, Spence, what it suggests to me is that Julian Assange believes that hell get asylum from Ecuador. And there is some evidence that that will happen because hes been communicating with Ecuadorian officials over some time. I understand hes been doing radio there through the President of Ecuador I think Im right in saying that. And obviously he believes Ecuador will grant him asylum.
Our view in the Opposition is that the Australian Government has largely got this right, apart from Julia Gillards premature declaration of the criminality of Julian Assange, which was an error from which she resiled earlier in the piece. We think that due process has been followed in English courts. The Australian Government has given appropriate assistance. Julian Assange of course could have returned to Australia at any time before he was charged in England, and if hes chosen to seek asylum in Ecuador thats obviously because he thinks that that will protect him from being sent to Sweden.
DENNY: If we could move on to the future of Fairfax, its obviously been dominating the news over the last couple of days, with news that 1,900 jobs are going to go; the Age and the SMH are converting to tabloid; Gina Reinharts acquired a lot of shares and refused to commit to the Charter of Editorial Independence shes after three seats, we understand, on the board of Fairfax; and Wayne Swan has described it as a threat to democracy. Penny Wong, whats your take on this?
WONG: I think there are a few things here. Obviously we do have a different view to Ms Rinehart on how much tax she and other wealthy miners should pay. We think they should pay a fairer rate of tax and that should be shared more broadly amongst the Australian community, something which I know Christopher opposes.
But, I think what we also have said is that the principle of editorial independence is important, and Ms Rinehart should express support for it. But what we dont agree with is any proposition that Government should regulate to seek that outcome because I think that would be a contradiction in terms to have Governments trying to regulate for editorial independence.
Ultimately, this is a matter for the company. And the point I made, when I was asked about this previously is, I said, look, it seems to me that one of the things that is an important part of the Fairfax brand is people do have a regard for the quality of the content and the quality of the journalism and anything that would undermine that reputation would obviously be a bad thing in terms of the companys brand and the value proposition.
DENNY: Well, that was the immediate thing that sprung to mind for me. I mean, whos going to buy a paper if they think, even if they perceive, that its somehow commercially affected.
WONG: And actually Malcolm Turnbull makes that point hes made that point previously and he makes that point today in one of his op eds where he, on this issue I think, is pretty close to the Governments position, which is we dont agree with regulation, but if theres any suggestion that somebody would utilise their ownership or part ownership of a newspaper to express their commercial interests that thats not a good thing for democracy. And it wouldnt be a good thing for consumers and consumers would see through it.
DENNY: Christopher Pyne?
PYNE: Spence, I think the interesting thing thats been exposed in this story in the last couple of days is that the biggest threat to democracy in Australia is not wealthy Australians but the Australian Greens, who believe that to protect freedom of the press, the Government should be regulating it. Of course, that was the view of the Soviet Union, East Germany, the current view of North Korea.
The only way, of course, to maintain the freedom of the press is to do just that. Its not for Government to regulate or control what should be printed in our newspapers. And it speaks volumes that the Greens are a very different party to just an environmental conservation party. There are a lot of people in the Greens who think that the Government should be doing just that, regulating the press in order to allow public comment that supports their position.
Now, if Gina Rinehart decides to increase her stake in Fairfax, to go on the board of Fairfax its a publicly listed company, shes perfectly entitled to do that. As Malcolm Turnbull has said, if she then turned the papers into a mouthpiece for herself, people would stop buying them and therefore of course shes not going to do that. So, the hysteria that this is being met with by some sections of the Government, like Wayne Swan, and the Greens, just doesnt meet the barbecue test of fear that they are trying to create.
WONG: If I could make a couple of comments there. I think its a little unfair to put Wayne Swan in the same position as the Greens given that he doesnt agree with them
PYNE: Its a little unfair.
WONG: (laughs) and given that the Greens position is not the Governments position and weve expressed our view on that. In fact the person whos closest to the Governments position is probably Malcolm Turnbull. But the point Id make to people who are concerned about this and I know there are people concerned about this is the reason you dont want Governments to regulate independence, apart from the fact that, as I said, its a bit contradictory, is imagine if you had Barnaby Joyce in a future Liberal government, a future Coalition government, as the Minister for Communications. Would you really want Barnaby Joyce making a decision about what was editorial independence? And I guarantee
PYNE: ... or the current Minister for Communications, Steve Conroy, who made something of a hash of the Australia Network tender. But since were getting along so well this morning, lets not start fighting now.
WONG: (laughs) I actually thought we would be a unity ticket when it came to Barnaby Joyce, Christopher. I think you privately would agree with me.
PYNE: (laughs) You know what this has exposed, its exposed that Matthew and David are the ones that cause all the trouble when were on.
WONG: Maybe Im just tired and I cant be bothered having an argument with you (laughs).
DENNY: (laughs) You cant be bothered fighting with each other. Penny Wong
WONG: Its a cold morning in Canberra, its been a
DENNY: (laughs) Its always a cold morning in Canberra.
WONG: No, no, its minus four.
PYNE: Its minus four.
WONG: So I think were both like its too cold to argue.
DENNY: Penny Wong, Labor Senator for South Australia, and Christopher Pyne, Liberal MP for Sturt, thank you so much indeed for your time this morning.
PYNE: Thats a pleasure.
WONG: Thank you.
ENDS