HOST: We are joined by the Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs Penny Wong from Adelaide. Thanks for joining us.
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good to be with you.
HOST: The Prime Minister is promoting Australia's border protection policy as the best in the world. Do you agree?
WONG: Well, look, there certainly is a global challenge when it comes to refugees. We have in excess of 60 million people displaced. It is a global challenge. We have said, in terms of the approach to border protection, there are many aspects to the policy Labor has provided bipartisan support for. But I would say that I think support for offshore processing doesn't mean support for indefinite punitive detention and the Government really does need to start looking at third country resettlement. What I would say in terms of the Prime Minister's comments, his comments on national security I would endorse. We have taken a constructive and bipartisan approach to national security to ensure that parties of Government work together to ensure Australians are safe.
HOST: The Prime Minister also spoke in terms of unauthorised movements of people. Is that a helpful terminology being used to describe what is one of the world's greatest humanitarian crises?
WONG: The more important issue rather than terminology is making sure there is a global response. As the Prime Minister said we have got millions of people displaced. This is a global problem. A global challenge. It requires collaboration amongst the countries of the world to respond to it.
HOST: The Prime Minister also today said that Australia has one of the most generous humanitarian aid programs in the world. Of course, we have seen a lot of criticism of Australia not taking in its Syrian refugees as quickly as other countries. He says the public will only accept a generous humanitarian program with strong border protections. Do you agree with these sentiments?
WONG: I think he certainly wants to talk about border protection a lot. What he doesn't want to talk about is the fact his Government made an announcement about Syrian refugees and has been very slow, unlike other nations, very slow to process people for those places. That's the reality. The Government really, if it makes an announcement, it should implement it.
HOST: Do you anticipate there will be an expectation with the summit that's about to get under way in the United States that Australia will, in fact, increase its intake of refugees?
WONG: Certainly Labor went to the last election with a policy to increase our humanitarian intake. We think, in light of the global challenge the world faces, in light of there being 65 million people who are displaced, Australia can do more. We went with a policy to increase our refugee intake. You did also ask me about aid. I would make the point that, under this Government, the bipartisan position on foreign aid did change. Julie Bishop was asked to cut an enormous amount out of the aid program. That's been a very disappointing development having no bipartisanship on aid.
HOST: The Prime Minister did say that he won't be telling other countries how to behave but at the same time he is standing in New York saying that Australia has the best border protection policy in the world. How do you think that will go down at the United Nations?
WONG: I reckon instead of lecturing everybody else about what they should do, one of the things Malcolm should take the opportunity to do while he is on this world tour is make sure he makes clear that Pauline Hanson's views are not the views of the Government, not the view of the Australian people. I noticed that Senator Hanson's comments have been getting international media. I think it is very important that the Prime Minister show leadership on this and be clear with Australians but also the international community that she doesn't speak for us.
HOST: I will bring our attention closer to home now and, in particular, the events of the past week where we had the resignation from Senator Stephen Conroy which follows from the demotion of Sam Dastyari. Signs of instability within Labor ranks and what does this mean for the Opposition Leader Bill Shorten?
WONG: Look, on Stephen, can I just say I wish him well. He has been a Labor champion. He is a tireless and courageous fighter for the principles in which he believes. He has been a critical player on the Labor side of politics for many, many years. I know how much he has missed his family and I certainly am glad he has got the opportunity to spend more time with them. People move on from politics. I know that seems - we always forget that in between events but he has been in Parliament for 20 years and that's a long time to be away from your partner and your child.
HOST: He has been in Parliament for 20 years and he attempts to resign by trying to text his boss who is overseas and doesn't tell the Acting Leader who is in the country who is about to face the press about his decision, instead hides it in a speech that he tables in Parliament without actually giving it. How do you explain away that behaviour?
WONG: Stephen's always done things his way. This was no exception. He's always done things his own way. What's done is done. He chose to table his resignation speech. It is unusual but I think he has a reputation for carving his own path and we see that even in his resignation.
HOST: There has been talk that a possible replacement would be a woman. Is that something that's been discussed in Labor ranks?
WONG: That's ultimately a matter for the Victorian branch. Obviously I'm a supporter of trying to get more women into Parliament and certainly Labor has done far better than the Government when it comes to putting women into Parliament. But ultimately the Victorian branch will have to make its decision about who his replacement will be.
HOST: It hasn't been a great couple of weeks though for Labor
WONG: (laughs)Oh come on.
HOST: With Dastyari falling on his sword and losing a senior front bencher just weeks after the election.
WONG: I reckon a Government that has made clear through this week that you might have voted for Malcolm but you got George Christensen, I'm pretty clear about who had the bad week. Malcolm Turnbull might have been elected Prime Minister but it's very clear, whether you look at superannuation or the Backpacker Tax today, or, in fact, the Marriage Equality plebiscite, this is a bloke who is being run by the hard right of the Liberal Party. Who elected George Christensen? Certainly he got elected in his seat but it appears like he is running the government. He has determined superannuation policy and is out there threatening to cross the floor again on the Backpacker Tax. Who is running things? It appears to be George, not Malcolm.
HOST: Just on that matter ofMarriage Equality, weve had the date set for the 11^th of February, funding has been given for advertising campaigns to get underway. With Labor policy being that a conscience vote is applicable for its MPs, will there be the numbers to, in fact, either pass or block this particular legislation?
WONG: The plebiscite bill?
HOST: Yes.
WONG: The plebiscite bill will obviously go to Caucus. It is very clear what from Bill said, what Tanya said, what I've said, what many senior Labor people have said, we have many serious concerns about a plebiscite, serious concerns about it. Those concerns have only been worsened by the way in which the Prime Minister has dealt with this. It is quite clear the Prime Minister's original position was not to have public funding because, apart from taxpayers funding an expensive non-binding opinion poll, the proposition is that taxpayers would fund the 'No' campaign. It is quite clear the Prime Minister didn't want to have that happen but he was rolled by the right. It comes back to the same point I was making in respect of George Christensen. You might have voted for Malcolm, thats not who you are getting. You are getting Christensen, Bernardi or Abetz. You are getting the right wing of the Liberal Party to whom the Prime Minister is beholden, whether it is Marriage Equality, or superannuation or now on the Backpacker Tax.
HOST: A couple of days ago, the Prime Minister indicated he might be open to some kind of compromise on the plebiscite. What do you read into that?
WONG: There is a good compromise available to him. Have a free vote. Have a free vote, let's not have lots of taxpayers' dollars spent on what would be a divisive campaign, a campaign, as I again say, that is non-binding. The plebiscite is non-binding. Cory Bernardi, Eric Abetz and others will never vote for Marriage Equality even if the plebiscite were successful. So Malcolm should just have the courage of his convictions and do what he has previously told us is his preference - remember he never supported a plebiscite - and have a free vote in the Parliament and we could have Marriage Equality very quickly.
HOST: Will there be the numbers in terms of Labor MPs to either block or support that plebiscite legislation?
WONG: It is pretty clear the way in which Labor is approaching this. This will go to our Caucus and go through our normal processes and a decision will be made. But I am flagging to you that when you have got as many people in the Labor Party, including the Leader, expressing concerns about the plebiscite, I think it's pretty self-evident which way the Labor Party is going to go in the Parliament.
HOST: Do you think that if this plebiscite doesn't get up, same-sex marriage won't really have a chance of getting up until the next Federal election?
WONG: I think we should be putting pressure on the Government to have a free vote. I think that is the quickest way to get this done. I think we should be, if the plebiscite bill is defeated, as I think is most likely at the moment, then we should be putting a very strong campaign in place to put the pressure on the Liberal Party to have the courage of its convictions. Let's understand what this is all about. It all comes down to the hard right of the Liberal Party and Malcolm selling out to them. Well, he shouldn't be allowed to get away with that, frankly.
HOST: Labor Senator and Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, Penny Wong, thank you very much for joining us on Weekend Breakfast.
WONG: Good to speak with you.