JOURNALIST: Christopher Pyne, Federal Liberal MP for Sturt, and Manager of Opposition Business in the House. Good morning to you, Christopher Pyne.
PYNE: Good morning, Matthew and David and Penny.
JOURNALIST: And Penny Wong, Minister for Finance and Senator Penny Wong and Minister from South Australia. Good morning to you, Penny Wong.
WONG: Good morning to you all.
JOURNALIST: Penny Wong, what was in the water yesterday? Do you agree its appropriate for the Federal Treasurer to refer to Opposition members as The Three Stooges? And to continue to tweet that after he was thrown out of the House?
WONG: Its a pretty robust place, the House of Representatives. Theres a lot of things which are said, I dont actually think being called Curly was anywhere near close to the worst thing thats ever been said in the House of Representatives. So the Speaker took action and thats obviously a matter for him, and shows what an impartial speaker he is. Its a pretty robust place. But I think the more important thing is what were actually talking about which is the passage of the mining tax, our plan to deal with the mining boom and spread its benefits across the country. Im
PYNE: Straight back on message.
WONG: interested to see if Christopher can tell us what his plan is. What is the Coalitions plan?
JOURNALIST: Well Minister, before we move onto that, before we go onto that, could you just answer a question we were just debating a moment ago and that is the cost of power in your home state. What are you going to do to reduce the cost of power in South Australia, which, within months, could have the most expensive power in the world?
WONG: People in South Australia speak to me often about power prices, and certainly since 1999 when the Liberal Government privatised ETSA weve seen very significant increases in power prices. Before Christopher jumps in and blames the carbon price, what weve seen is power price increases which have nothing to do with putting a price on carbon.
JOURNALIST: No, however what we do see, and I know there was a privatisation of our electricity here, that was over 10 years ago. What were now hearing from, I think, from the senior public servant who was answering for the Minister, is a problem with the legislation. That the framework, as he called it, which is unfairly weighted towards the big energy producers. In other words, they really have made a killing milking energy consumers for infrastructure upgrades, rather than amortising them out. Is that an issue that has really, sort of, in a way, come under the radar? And the result is that your home state, the state that you represent Senator Penny Wong, has the highest power prices, according to one measure, third highest in the world, the highest in Australia.
WONG: Youre right in terms of the thing thats driving costs is investment in infrastructure and the network. I understand that Minister Ferguson, whos the Minister with responsibility for this, has put out an energy white paper. And one of the issues in that this is a draft white paper one of the issues in that is looking at whether the current regulatory structures are the correct ones. It is correct to say the major driver of power price increases has been investment in network, investment in infrastructure. And we do need to look at whether or not those rules are delivering the best outcome for consumers over the longer term.
JOURNALIST: Chris Pyne?
PYNE: Well, gentlemen, the first thing I would say about the electricity prices in South Australia is that theyre going to be made a whole lot worse, even on the Governments own modelling, by the introduction of the carbon tax from July 1. Even the Governments own modelling says electricity prices will rise by 10 per cent. The Energy Users Association of Australia says theyll rise by 20 per cent, the New South Wales Treasury says theyll rise by 30 per cent.
JOURNALIST: So everybodys making up numbers?
PYNE: Well, the Government is the most conservative
JOURNALIST: Surely theres a set of figures, and somebody, there should be a rigid and scrutineered set of figures, rather than plucking figures out of the air like 10 per cent, 20 per cent, 30 per cent. Theres a bit of a difference, isnt there?
WONG: One presumes that the Department of the Treasury
PYNE: Well, hang on, hang on, Penny youve had a very good run.
WONG: would be the figures
PYNE: Youve had most of this interview so far, Penny, so I think youve got to let somebody else have a go every now and then. The truth is, even the Treasury modelling, even the most conservative figures say that electricity prices will rise by 10 per cent. So, South Australian consumers can look forward to high electricity prices from July, because of the carbon tax. And what the Opposition will do, our first act in Government if we get elected is to abolish the carbon tax and by abolishing it take pressure off electricity prices.
JOURNALIST: Christopher Pyne, do you concede though the fact that it was a Liberal State Government which sold the asset, and therefore forfeited a lot of control from the point of view of taxpayers, it makes it very difficult for the Liberals to argue the high cost of power?
PYNE: No, I dont accept that, because if you look back in history electricity prices in South Australia before privatisation were also high, because the Government was taking a dividend. Labor and Liberal governments
JOURNALIST: They went up by more than 20 per cent within a few years of the privatisation. If you spend
PYNE: As you pointed out
JOURNALIST: If you spend billions of dollars buying an asset you need to recoup it somehow and private companies are going to want to recoup much more quickly than governments.
PYNE: Well, almost every state has privatised their power companies so that is not the reason why South Australia has very high electricity prices, and as you point out, the highest in the country. Youve also pointed out privatisation occurred thirteen years ago. So I dont think the current Labor Government can blame something that happened thirteen years ago. But what I can tell your listeners, and Im sure they actually would accept and agree with this, is that a carbon price is only going to make a bad situation worse. And the best thing the Government could do would be to scrap the carbon tax before July 1.
JOURNALIST: Senator Penny Wong, on your figures you would agree that there would be a 10 per cent increase from July on power prices in South Australia and elsewhere?
WONG: The Treasury modelling does look at the increase of prices, and it does say that electricity, on average, will go up about 10 per cent and that is factored into the additional assistance that were giving families.
The thing that Christopher doesnt say is that his plans the blood oath, as Tony Abbott put it to get rid of the carbon price were they to be elected, has to be accompanied by a commitment to reduce pensions, to reduce the family tax benefit, and to increase taxes. Because all of those things, all of those things are required to roll back the reforms the Governments put in place. Remember that the assistance package
JOURNALIST: But why would you need to do that because theyre there, arent they there as compensation? So, if you remove the tax why would you need the compensation?
WONG: We are tripling the tax-free threshold. That of its own right is a good reform. Apart from giving a tax cut to everyone earning under $80,000, apart from that, it also gives more reward for work. So it increases the incentive for people to participate.
JOURNALIST: But that is just compensation is it not?
WONG: This is assistance but its good economic policy in its own right, unashamedly.
JOURNALIST: I suppose if you remove the increased prices from a carbon tax, then why would you need compensation? Because the compensation as you say is intended to address the increase in prices. So if Tony Abbott rolls back the tax, well he can also roll back the compensation. Its a zero sum game is it not?
WONG: Thats what Christopher Pyne would say. And what Id say is he should come out and say to people: yes, if you elect us we will have lower age pensions, we will have lower family tax benefits, and we will take back the tax break for everyone earning under $80,000 a year. Thats Liberal party policy.
PYNE: No, that is not Liberal party policy, Penny.
WONG: You cant have it both ways.
PYNE: Now Ive let you get away with verballing for about the last five minutes but you just cant keep
WONG: You cannot have it both ways.
JOURNALIST: We should let Christopher Pyne answer. We should let Christopher Pyne answer now. Is that Liberal party policy Christopher Pyne and, if so
PYNE: That is not Liberal party policy. Now, I let Penny keep on verballing and her relentless negativity directed at the Leader of the Opposition for about five minutes, but then
JOURNALIST: But her answer
PYNE: But then she finally kind of dropped over the edge of reality by saying it was Liberal party policy. Now, there is no Liberal party policy to do any of the things that Penny Wong
WONG: Well how will you afford
PYNE: Excuse me Penny. Let me finish my sentence.
WONG: You dont like to answer the question do you?
PYNE: You dont get to ask the questions because youre
WONG: Well these are the answers people are entitled to.
PYNE: Oh, come on Penny. If you want to be the interviewer you hop on the other side of the table.
WONG: No, I just think you cant say you cant just be misleading people. You cant keep misleading people
PYNE: You cant keep asking
JOURNALIST: Ladies and gentlemen.
PYNE: You cant keep asking the questions, you have to let somebody answer
JOURNALIST: Were going to start playing Three Stooges audio in a moment. Were going to do a nyuk-nyuk-nyuk-nyuk-whoo-whoo-whoo-whoo-whoo ...
PYNE: Fair enough. Now, I didnt interrupt Penny
JOURNALIST: Chris Pyne, stop telling us you didnt interrupt her and get your answer out, because were going to run into the news!
PYNE: Id love to, because she never stops interrupting me!
WONG: Im laughing at the moment because Im trying to imagine who you, which of The Three Stooges, thats all is.
JOURNALIST: Chris Pyne.
PYNE: Penny doesnt want to know
JOURNALIST: Chris Pyne, finish your answer for crying out loud, please.
PYNE: Well, now youre all interrupting. Whats going on here? Penny doesnt want the listeners to actually get the answer because the answer is: the Coalition will abolish the carbon tax, delivering an immediate tax cut to all South Australian families and taking pressure off electricity prices. We will have a policy to do with pensions and other income tax cuts which Tony Abbott has already announced we will do, which will be out well and truly before the next federal election.
So the idea that we are and weve supported the superannuation increase so the idea that we are somehow going to do the things that Penny Wong suggested is completely fabricated. And its just part of the relentless negativity directed towards Tony Abbott
JOURNALIST: Alright
PYNE: apropos of the Campbell Newman campaign in Queensland which is the Labor partys copy book.
JOURNALIST: Alright, I think youve both had
WONG: See I was very quiet through that.
JOURNALIST: I know you were.
WONG: No, Im just saying
PYNE: You were appalling. You were appallingly badly behaved.
WONG: I just have one thing to say
JOURNALIST: Quick!
WONG: They cant afford it. And thats why they have a $70 billion black hole.
JOURNALIST: Ok. And thats the one thing you say.
WONG: They just cant afford to do everything theyre saying.
JOURNALIST: Senator Penny Wong, thank you. Thank you, we appreciate it. Federal Minister for Finance. And we appreciate having you on as well Christopher Pyne, Liberal MP for Sturt, Manager
PYNE: Its always a pleasure.
WONG: Its been a great pleasure.
PYNE: Its always a pleasure.
WONG: Do you want to be Curly?
PYNE: No. What about you Moe?
WONG: Ill leave that to the boys.
PYNE: Stop arguing, stop arguing.
JOURNALIST: Its two minutes to nine. Theyre in the studio together. Can we have a screen between them?
ENDS