JOURNALIST: Thanks for your time.
WONG: Good to be with you and thank you for getting up early. I really appreciate it. If I can give a plug to the ABC who have been great supporters of this event, which is non party political, so we have lots of politicians from all the different parties attending in support of International Womens Day. And 891 ABC has been a fantastic supporter for many years.
JOURNALIST: Im just trying to find a text because I think it was Rosie from Paralowie who was there this morning, was saying what a wonderful morning it was. She really enjoyed it. What a great start to the day. And I think over the last three years, during which Ive been associated with it, it seems to be just a wonderful event for people to come back to each year and be inspired.
WONG: I think its a great event and its a real honour for me to be associated with it. Before I went into Parliament I was actually the chair of the committee that hosts this event when Rosemary Crowley, the former Senator, used to be the host. And when I went into Parliament I took it over and we continue to work with lots of women to put this event on. What I like about it is it gives people a way of celebrating International Womens Day. It brings women from all different walks of life together. So you get school kids and you get women who are quite elderly who have a whole range of experiences they can share when they chat to people. Its just great.
JOURNALIST: Do you know what struck me this time though, too, because I know a lot of people perhaps who havent been to one of these breakfasts think of it as a women-only event. But this year particularly, I noticed more men in the crowd. And I remember Neil Gillespie came up to say hello from the Aboriginal Legal Rights Movement and I said, Oh youre a brave man, getting up and joining a breakfast like this. And he went, Oh no, no, no. I think this is very important. Im very against violence against women. Im very for womens rights. And I thought, thats really interesting, isnt it, that I was almost apologetic about him being there, and he saw it as an honour.
WONG: Its great to have men come along and support it and its great to have so many Adelaide women come along and support it. And of course this year, as you know, is the 100 year anniversary of International Womens Day. So were celebrating a centenary of womens achievements, increased equality. We havent quite got everything equal in the world yet but weve certainly come a long way and South Australia has obviously got such a great track record. I mean, we are the first place in the world where women could stand for Parliament. One of the first places in the world where women could vote. So weve got a good track record on that.
JOURNALIST: Well in a moment well speak with Isobel Redmond, Opposition Leader, who as a woman who has been a very obvious success story here in South Australia, as have you Senator Penny Wong within the political field. But I think what was really obvious from Tanya Munros speech today Professor Tanya Munros speech was that she was highlighting that while she did fantastically in science and has made a real place for herself, women everyday, in every facet of life, either as a mother on a day-to-day, in much less public roles, are making successes of their lives.
WONG: I think thats true and what we try and do in the people we ask to come and give speeches at these breakfasts is to have lots of different types of women, some of whom are very famous, some of whom less so. I always have a chat to the speaker a few weeks before and I always say, you know what people are most interested in? Theyre most interested in your story how it is you got to be where you are, but not just, this was my career, my professional life, but how that personal journey was. And everybody has a personal journey. And that personal journey for women, particularly in non-traditional areas, is probably quite an interesting story for people to hear.
JOURNALIST: Every year you have commented in your speech about your mother and that you pay tribute to her. What was it about your mother as a role model that meant so much to you?
WONG: Well like I said in the speech this morning, everything starts with your mum so youve got to say good morning to her, dont you, in front of 2000 women! (laughs)
Look, Mum was and is such an inspiration to me in terms of how she lives her life and the choices she made when she was young. Shes from a family of five girls so, as I said this morning, pretty matriarchal tradition on that side of the family. She was brought up initially on a farm up in the Adelaide Hills and both her parents died when she was reasonably young. So I guess the sisters looked after each other, so theres that strong bond between them.
But she married my father whos obviously Chinese in the 1960s. He was a Columbo Plan scholar here at Adelaide, studied architecture at the University of Adelaide. And I think we forget now what an extraordinary thing that was for a young white woman in Australia, while we still had the White Australia policy, to marry a Malaysian Chinese man and to go back to Malaysia with him in the 1960s.
And shes somebody who has enormous integrity but also is very clear-sighted about what her beliefs are. Even if the dominant belief is different, she thinks, No, thats not right, I think this is right. Shes quite single-minded about that and Ive always admired that.
JOURNALIST: So what do you take from that? Do you take that quality from her too?
WONG: That just because something is popular opinion or a majority opinion doesnt always mean that its right. And that also, sometimes you just have to keep talking about what you think is right and explain that to people.
I think I also learnt from her I hope I learnt from her, I try to shes a very personally fair person and she judges people very much by their character. Shes never been somebody who thinks hierarchy or status or success or any of those sorts of things mattered as much as, I suppose, your personal character and your ethics. And shes always been clear about that. I hope Ive learnt that.
JOURNALIST: Do you think shes proud of you?
WONG: Youd have to ask her! (laughs). Well she says she is! But what I like about her, she gave a speech at my 40th and she said, she always used to say when people said, Oh you must be proud of her, if Id done well at school or uni or politics, and shed say, Yes, but Im also proud because, shes ethical and shes good. You know, all of those things. So she has always tried to speak as much about being proud of personal things as opposed to public things.
JOURNALIST: Achievements.
WONG: Yeah. Which I think its a good way to think.
JOURNALIST: Im speaking with South Australian Senator Penny Wong. This is the 100th anniversary of International Womens Day. Isobel Redmond is the state Opposition Leader and has made a fair success, youd have to say, of her life and career as well.
Good afternoon Isobel Redmond.
REDMOND: Good afternoon Sonya and Penny and thank you for those kind words.
JOURNALIST: Isobel Redmond, when you think about International Womens Day, what would be the message youd want to get through?
REDMOND: Look, like Penny, I think weve come a long way. And I think weve come a long way in a relatively short time and Im a little older than Penny so I actually remember and I was talking in fact to Jane Kittel, the managing director of BankSA, yesterday at the International Womens Day lunch that BankSA held, and we both remembered the time when women werent able to contribute to superannuation and in a lot of careers, women had to give up their career when they got married. And the current generation, theyre absolutely blind-sighted when you tell them that that was the way things were. Not only were there different pay rates for the same work. But you couldnt continue in any number of things: local government, for instance, banking a whole range of things airline hostesses. You could not be married and hold a job. So we have come an extraordinarily long way.
We sort of, I think, got off to a slow start and Penny mentioned that we were the first place in the world to give women the right to stand for Parliament as well as well as the right to vote. And of course that was way back in 1894 but it took us until 1959 for them to get two women elected. And Im proud to say they were both Liberal women. One in the House of Assembly and one in the Legislative Council. But 65 years from when they got the right to when we actually achieved it. So in spite of what seems at times to be slow progress, when you look whats happened from 1959 until now, I think actually we have made fairly rapid advances.
JOURNALIST: Isobel Redmond, today Tanya Monro at the Breakfast she said it never occurred to her to be bothered about being the only woman in a room of men. I imagine you have found yourself in that position over the years. Did it ever concern you?
REDMOND: No, it never concerned me. But I was aware on a number of occasions when I was only the second woman ever elected to Stirling Council, the first woman invited to join the Rotary Club up there, the first woman on the Road Safety Advisory Council and so on. So on a number of occasions in my life, Ive been conscious when Ive been invited to become a participant that Im probably being invited to participate because they feel the need to have at least a token woman. And Ive been very conscious of the need to therefore be the best Rotarian I could be or the best Councillor I could be or the best whatever, so that I would help to break down that stereotype so that I was not just a token, that I was actually a valuable member of whatever team it was.
JOURNALIST: What about you, Penny Wong? Would you agree with that? Have you felt that at any point?
WONG: Being the only woman in the room?
JOURNALIST: Yeah.
WONG: It happens regularly (laughs). Both in terms of my previous career when I was a trade union person, when I was a lawyer but politics, yes. And, you know, even as Minister for Finance there are many times where if Im not the only woman, I might be one of two or three in a large room. I think the statistics bear that out so we have less than 10 per cent about 8.5 per cent of women directors on the boards of our biggest 200 companies. And I do want to say something
JOURNALIST: But we have a female Prime Minister.
WONG: We have a female Prime Minister.
JOURNALIST: We have a state Opposition Leader and several female Premiers.
WONG: We do. But I think I want to deal with this merit issue. Because its come up a couple of times today and people say, we shouldnt worry about getting women in positions of power or influence, whatever, we should do it on merit. And I say, yes we should do it on merit.
But if youve got less than one in ten 10 positions being held by a woman, I guess the question is do you really think it is only being done on merit because if you are saying that then really only 8 per cent of women are good enough to do those jobs. And I dont think people really believe that today and I think that means we do have to do more.
JOURNALIST: Isobel Redmond, do you support Quentin Bryces call today to have quotas for women on boards?
REDMOND: No, and Im on the record very strongly and clearly for a long time saying that I am absolutely convinced that its the 21st century and the only way we will have true equality is not to do anything except on the basis of merit. And every time the Government proposes a new board or committee be established and their legislation says there shall be at least one female and one male, I get up and make the Isobel speech which is to say we must choose on merit because theres a sting in the tail. If men are overlooked because they are men in favour of a woman who may not be of equal calibre, then I think that there is a problem with that. I think we need to remember that all men have sisters and mothers and daughters and wives and all women have husbands and brothers and sons and fathers. And you know, I think that we are heading towards equality but I dont think we will get ourselves to equality until we dont have anything except merit as the consideration for appointment.
JOURNALIST: Penny Wong?
WONG: Look, its International Womens Day and I dont want to get too political. But my view is that nobody is suggesting that men should be overlooked. We just think you should have a look at women and
JOURNALIST: But if they have the abilities and that, would they not be chosen within these board structures?
WONG: Well it comes back to what I said. If you think, and lets be clear, were not suggesting government although its interesting, I noticed Joe Hockey was suggesting the possibility of quotas down the track but were not suggesting that. Weve said boards need to do better, companies need to do better, lets talk about the ways in which we can support women going into board positions. I think companies should listen to the fact that, I think, Australians need a little bit more diversity.
But coming back to the issue of merit. If only 8 per cent of positions are filled by women, there are really only two options as to the reasons why that is. Either were not good enough, or there are other reasons why were not getting chosen. I dont think most Australians accept the first reason. That means youve got to look at the second. Youve got to say what are the reasons for not getting chosen and how do we change that culture? And I think it is about trying to change the culture where we continue to appoint similar sorts of people, the same people to positions.
Certainly, since Ive become Minister for Finance Ive just said to people, look dont put a selection list in front of me that doesnt have some women on it. They should all be qualified, but you should go and look and make sure when Governments choosing, it looks across a range of suitably qualified candidates.
JOURNALIST: Ladies, look, thank you both for your time today on International Womens Day, the 100th anniversary. Different sides of the spectrum but both successful South Australian womens stories. Thank you for your time.
WONG: Its been great to be with you.
REDMOND: Pleasure.
JOURNALIST: Thank you. Penny Wong, Labor Senator for South Australia and Isobel Redmond, state Opposition Leader.
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