MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: We're joined now by Senator Penny Wong, Labor's Leader in the Senate. Good morning, Senator Wong.
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good morning, good to be with you.
BRISSENDEN: Now Dyson Heydon says his speech at the Garfield Barwick dinner would have been non-political and by agreeing to give it there's no basis to conclude that he's biased against the Labor Party or the unions.
He says no fair-minded observer could apprehend that he was intending "to raise funds or generate support for the Liberal Party," and that there's "no connection between the event and the matters the royal commission is examining". Do you reject all that?
WONG: Well, I have to say it's not just me. I think you could speak to most people in the street and say to them an event that was established by the Liberal Party, an event that was established by the Liberal Party, organised by the Liberal Party, not one but two branches of the Liberal Party, which raised funds for the Liberal Party, and then say to them, but actually do you think it's not a Liberal Party event? I think most people would regard that as ridiculous.
BRISSENDEN: Well he says there's no connection between the event and the matters the royal commission is examining, which is right isn't it?
WONG: Even the Prime Minister has said this is a royal commission that's about the future of the Labor Party.
But I don't think any fair minded observer looking at this royal commission over the time since its inception would regard it as looking at both sides of politics.
In fact people might recall that the original genesis of this royal commission was investigating discredited allegations against former Labor Prime Minister Julia Gillard.
But leaving all that aside, what we have is a man who was once a judge, now a royal commissioner, handpicked by Tony Abbott, who accepted an invitation to speak at a fundraiser which was organised for the purpose of raising funds for the Liberal Party, who is enquiring into one side of politics.
And I think this, these events really have discredited the royal commission.
BRISSENDEN: It is enquiring into union corruption, isn't it? And it has been doing a pretty good job at uncovering some of that - four people have been arrested by the AFP, 26 have been referred to state and federal agencies.
WONG: And we have said time and time again, there is no place for criminal activity or corruption anywhere, whether it's in the trade union movement or elsewhere.And we have said it is appropriate that you have a joint police taskforce, a high powered taskforce to investigate and prosecute crime wherever it occurs in relation to these-
BRISSENDEN: -But not the royal commission?
WONG: This commission I think has really demonstrated itself to not be an unbiased, impartial operation.And I think that's really been demonstrated in these last days, not just in its genesis, but in its conduct.

But most importantly, I don't think anybody, any fair minded observer that everyone keeps talking about, could look at the invitation that was sent to Mr Heydon time and time again and say that this could not be described as a Liberal Party event.
BRISSENDEN: So now you'll put a motion to the Senate on Monday seeking his removal. Will you have the numbers?
WONG: Look ultimately that's, as you know, a matter for the crossbench. We are having discussions with other Senators. We'll continue to do that because we think this is a very important issue.
We've got a situation where the Prime Minister has refused to act. Now the commissioner has declared himself to not be biased and declared that a person, a reasonable observer, would not apprehend that he were biased.
I think in those circumstances it is incumbent upon Parliament to act. I don't think the position that the commissioner has taken really is something out there in the community that is regarded as supportable.
BRISSENDEN: And what are the consequences if the Senate does pass that motion? That then goes directly to the Governor-General and what happens?
WONG: Ultimately this is a matter for the Governor-General. What we will do is we will ask the Senate to agree this address, that's what it's described as, the formal message requesting that the Governor-General revoke the commission's Letters Patent. And we will see at that point whether the appropriate action will be taken.
I do want to make this point, there have been a number of people suggesting that this is, you know, not an appropriate use of the way in which the Senate operates. This is the way in which the Senate passes an Address in Reply to the speech at the opening of the Parliament regularly. This is the way in which the Parliament addresses the monarch's representative. And the advice from the Clerk makes it very clear this is an appropriate way for the Senate to express its view.
It is regrettable that the Senate has to consider such a resolution, given the circumstances, given that Tony Abbott is refusing to act.The Attorney-General in fact makes it clear that one should not act, he should not act, it would be inappropriate for him to act.And the Commissioner has said that attending a Liberal Party event is not problematic. Really, it's up to the Parliament to act.
BRISSENDEN: Okay, can I turn to another matter where you and the unions are at odds with the Government and that is the China Free Trade Agreement.Now the Trade Minister Andrew Robb is warning that China will walk away from the deal if Labor votes it down. You're not really going to vote it down, are you?
WONG: Well look we are up for a trade agreement with China. And I've said that on a number of occasions.
If you look at Labor in government most recently, where we supported Asian engagement in a variety of ways, or the history of the Labor Party, which is one of trade liberalisation over decades, you will see that we are a party that recognises the importance of trade for jobs. However we want to make sure we've got an agreement that maximises Australian jobs and that minimises the risk of exploitation in the Australian labour market.
BRISSENDEN: But this Free Trade Agreement, as has been pointed out many times, includes exactly the same kind of labour market protections the Labor Party included in free trade agreements that you negotiated when you were in office.
WONG: That is utterly incorrect and it's regrettable that you repeat an incorrect assertion from the Government. That is not the case. This agreement goes well beyond any agreement, certainly the Labor Government or in fact other Governments, Liberal Governments have done in relation to opening up the Australian market.
BRISSENDEN: How do you respond to calls from people like Bob Hawke and Bob Carr, who want you to sign it?
WONG: Sure, and they are correct to remind all of us of the importance of jobs, of trade to jobs.And as I've said to you, we are up for a trade agreement with China. We're willing to work with the Government to find a way through to address these issues.
We regret that Andrew Robb has brought an agreement home which we believe presents risks.We want to find a way through and what we'd say to Tony Abbott is he should do what John Howard was prepared to do which is to sit down with the opposition and find a way through.
Because the lack of safeguards when it comes to local jobs in this agreement is not only concerning the Labor Party and the trade union movement; it's concerning many people around the country.
BRISSENDEN: Can I just quickly stop on the, ask you about the Canning by-election, which is obviously being painted as a big test for Tony Abbott. But it is a pretty big test for Labor and Bill Shorten too, isn't it?
WONG: Look, this is a by-election in circumstances where we've seen the passing away of the local member. And frankly history certainly would suggest that it would be extremely difficult for the Labor Party to get a large swing in this seat.
In fact since the war I think on average by-elections in terms of swings against the government are only about 4 per cent. And in fact it's less than that where the by-election is caused by the passing of a local member, I think about 2.5 per cent.
BRISSENDEN: So you'd be happy with a swing of 2.5 per cent would you?

WONG: No, I'm making the point that historically you're looking at swings of 2.5 to 4 per cent on average since the war in by-elections in similar circumstances. So that's obviously, I suppose the norm, the historical norm since that time.
We'll be going, we're campaigning hard in Canning. We are campaigning because we think it's a very important test for Tony Abbott and it's a very important opportunity for Western Australians who are experiencing increasing unemployment to send a message to-
BRISSENDEN: -So what sort swing would you like to see, what sort of swing would be acceptable to you?
WONG: As I said to you, I think the norm that is to be expected and the historical average is something between 2.5 and 4 per cent. And I think that's an important fact to put on the table.
Ultimately it's up to the people of Canning. We've got a very good candidate in Matt and we'll be out there prosecuting our arguments.I think what we see is a Government that doesn't have a plan for jobs, a Government that seems to be focused on fighting itself.
BRISSENDEN: Okay, Senator Penny Wong we'll leave it there, thanks very much for joining us.

WONG: Good to speak with you.