GREG JENNETT: Penny Wong, as we speakwe're uncertain what theGovernment may do or not do onnegative gearing, but becauseLabor has a policy to findsavings in that area is it agiven that you'd support anysavings the Government mightcome up with ahead of theelection?
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Well, we put our ownpolicy forward which we thinkmakes sense. Were still waitingand I think the whole ofAustralia is waiting for thisGovernment to set out somedirection when it comes to theeconomy and the Budget.
Let'snot forget, Malcolm Turnbulltore down Tony Abbott in partbecause he said that TonyAbbott was incapable ofproviding the economicleadership the country needs.Since then we've had a lotof policy waffle, but no cleardirection from the Prime Minister or thisTreasurer and I think, everyonewhether or not they agree withthe options, would look forwardto the Treasurer actuallyputting something on the tablerather than just having achat.
JENNETT: Labor has many peoplehave described as a bold planand that's effectively to turnthe tap off on establishedhomes and negative gearing ofthem. There are other optionsavailable though, things likecap, limits on deductions, limitson numbers of property. Ifthose options came up into inthe interim do you rule themout?
WONG: We've done a lot of workon this policy and Chris Bowenand the team are to becongratulated for how much workthey've done over a long periodof time. There are always otheroptions but we've settled on apolicy which we think deliversnot only savings to the Budgetover the decade, but also focuses on new housing supply,so there is a housingaffordability element to ournegative gearing and capitalgains tax policy matrix and wethink that makes sense. Westill look forward to theGovernment putting theirpolicies on the table, as JeffKennett said, he thinks whatLabor has done is a good thingand if you've got even JeffKennett saying that thepolicy's got merit, you must be doingsomething right when it comesto the public policy debate.
JENNETT: Yes, but multipleindustry groups have alsosuggested that Labor's policycould distort the market andparticularly the rental market.How have you been able tosatisfy yourself that thatwon't be case?
WONG: We said when weannounced this, I think Billand Chris said very clearly,were going to have a lot of peoplecriticising this because a lotindustry players have aparticular interest in makingsure the current arrangementscontinue. But we've got to lookat what's in the nationalinterest and let's remember, if this is a policy that'sabout bringing on new housingsupply, only 7 cents in everydollar that is spent throughthe negative gearing subsidy - and that's what it is, aneffective subsidy- goes to newhousing, 93 per cent is on existinghousing. So if the objective isto try and encourage newhousing supply, then clearlyit's failing
But in addition,let's be upfront about this, weneed our budget, Australia'sbudget, to maintain spending inhospitals, in Medicare, and ineducation. I know those thingsare not a priority for theTurnbull Government, but theyare a priority for Labor andthey're a priority for theAustralian people.
Weunderstand we have got to matchthings that improve the budgetbottom line to enable thebudget to do the thingsAustralians expect, such as fundour schools and our hospitals andmake sure Medicare stays inpublic hands.
JENNETT: On that division,maintaining the spending butrepairing the budget, I thinkLabor's grand savings total atthe moment is said to berunning around $100 billion.How much of that is actually for deficitreduction?
WONG: This will all beclear prior to the election, as parties will berequired to make sureAustralians understand veryclearly what our position is,what decisions we've made aboutimproving the position of thebudget, but also what decisionswe've made about theinvestments I think are needed.
I think the school fundingpackage that Bill's announcedis an economic reform as wellas a social reform. This isabout ensuring Australians inthe future, our kids today and inthe future, have the skills tobe able to not only provide forthemselves and their familiesand make the most of theopportunities of the 21stCentury. It's also aboutmaking sure our economy isstrong and if our economy is strongthen obviously that improves theposition of the budget.
JENNETT: Let'smove on and get you to put on your SenateLeader hat now. It looks likelythat the Senate will be asked, or theParliament more generally asked,to reform Senate voting rules,pretty quickly. At the moment,does do nothing look the mostlikely position that the LaborParty will take?
WONG: At the momentwe have yet to see legislationfrom the Government. Obviously there was aParliamentary Committee, the Joint Standing Committee onElectoral Matters, whichreported on the 2013 electionand made a set of suggestions.I'm deeply concerned thoughthat it appears to be thesubject of a backroom dealbetween the Greens and theCoalition-
JENNETT: -But that's onlybecause Labor hasn't really engaged onit so far. I think there was a viewthat they'd try to getbipartisanship?
WONG: Let me be veryclear, I've been in the Senatea fair while and the thought ofBob Brown or Christine Milnedoing a deal with Coalition tochange the Senate voting lawswould be pretty unusual, wouldnt it. Ican't imagine them doing it.
Wedon't want is under Senator Di Natale and LeeRhiannon a backroom deal ofwhich Australians know nothingother than what's been leakedout a couple of stories and a couple of comments to the media. We have concernsabout what's been negotiatedbehind closed doors. I thinkthat's time for Senator Di Natale and Lee Rhiannon, as well as the Government, to comeclean about what has beennegotiated.
JENNETT: Whether it's somemodel that the Greens and theGovernment are negotiating orwhether it's the one that theParliamentary Committee came upwith, through what prism do youlook at this issue? Is it aboutvoters will and a system thatreflects that or is it as someif your party view it, about what disadvantages oradvantages the Labor Party?
WONG: I think that theprinciple should be anelectoral system in whichAustralians can have confidence,which has integrity, which doesensure that the will of the voter is reflected best. Butlet's remember a system whichdelivers a majority of theSenate to the Coalition wouldnot be reflecting the will of the voter. The last electionthe Coalition got just over athird of the vote from theSenate, two thirds ofAustralians didn't vote for the Coalition Senators and ineffect over 3 millionAustralians didn't vote foreither Labor or Liberal or theGreens.
JENNETT: You think optionalpreferential, as it's beendiscussed at the moment, couldproduce an outright majority for the Coalition?
WONG: I wasconcerned to see reports intoday's media which suggestedthat the Coalition could gainoutright control of the Senateand if thats the case, I think Lee Rhiannon has abit of explaining to do to hersupporters. Why she wouldcountenance a position thatwould deliver the Coalitioncontrol of the Senate where themajority of Australians didn'tvote for them.
Lets just remember, whatwould have happened in 2014 ifthe 2014 budget had beenable to be passed through theSenate, Tony Abbott's budget,had been able to pass throughthe Senate unamended becausethe Coalition had control ofthe Senate. I don't thinkAustralians would thank theGreens for that kind ofoutcome.
JENNETT: So faced with thatpossibility, status quo ispreferable, don't change therules?
WONG: We haven't seenlegislation from theGovernment. We will obviouslygo through our proper processes,as we do, to consider whatproposals the Government hasand we'll do that on the basisthat I've outlined to you. Butat the moment what we have is abackroom deal that no one knows about between the Greens andthe Coalition.
JENNETT: It looks likeyour spokesman in this area,Gary Gray, won't have much moreof a voice to carry thisforward. He's quitting, in factall three lower house membersfor Labor in the West aregoing, is that destabilising?
WONG: Can I first say on Gary,because I haven't had theopportunity to say anythingpublicly because he announcedlast night. Gary has made an extraordinary contribution tothe Labor Party, not just inParliament, but obviously asNational Secretary, over manydecades. I remember Gary having a chat to me when I wasa young up and coming YoungLabor person and he gave good advice and he wasvery supportive. He's been an outstanding contributor, wewish him well.
JENNETT: And his divisionor his branch there in theWest, not in great shape at themoment?
WONG: Obviously this is anopportunity for a newgeneration of Labor Membersfrom the West. It's a tough jobbeing a Member of Parliament from Western Australia. I thinkeverybody knows that. Peoplehave made their decisions,they've put out there theirreasons why they've done that,and this is obviously anopportunity for Labor, and aresponsibility for Labor in theWest, to ensure we deliver a newgeneration of Labor voices fromWestern Australia.
Let'sremember we have got a proudtradition from WA, obviously aformer Leader of the Party KimBeazley is a Western Australian,so we've got an importantopportunity now I think to regenerate.
JENNETT: Andthere's a bit of that going onacross the Parliament rightnow.
WONG: There's certainly arevolving door when it comes toMalcolm Turnbull'sministry, thats true.
JENNETT: Penny Wong, we'll leave it there.Thank you.
WONG: Good to speak with you.