GREG JENNETT: There you go, Penny Wongbeing praised as a negotiatorbehind that deal as Labor'sTrade spokeswoman and she joinsus now. Are you comfortable with Malcolm Turnbull'sadulation?
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: I don't think it'sadulation, but I thinkbipartisanship in the nationalinterest is always a goodthing and what we have achieved isbipartisanship because Laborwas able to achieve criticalsafeguards for Australian jobs,which has enabled a bipartisanagreement on this tradeagreement.
JENNETT: It seemed a fairlysmooth deal in the end,clinched in what are we saying,a week. Did you actually meet anyresistance in the negotiatingroom at all?
WONG: Well, things always -I'm glad you think itlooked calm from the outside-
JENNETT: -From theoutside-
WONG: -It sometimes doesn'tfeel like that when you arenegotiating, but full credit toAndrew Robb and his staff. Wenegotiated in good faith, Henegotiated in good faith and Ithink we achieved a goodoutcome for the nation.
FromLabor's perspective we achievedcritical safeguard for jobs, in terms of labour market testing,for Australian wages and conditions and also theupholding of Australian safetyand skills standards. So we got theoutcomes we wanted and it's agood thing when you can get bipartisanship on something thats asimportant as this.
JENNETT: Do you holdany suspicions about theability to lock all this down?I think some people are makingthe point it's in regulation,not in legislation. I knowthat's technical to mostpeople, but does it make anymaterial difference to yourlevel of satisfaction?
WONG: Twothings. First, legally binding, thats what we wanted.We wanted legally bindingobligations to ensure there waslabour market testing to protect Australian jobs. Wewanted legally binding obligations to uphold Australian wages andconditions and we got that.We wanted legally binding obligations to uphold skills and standards and we got that. Yes, it's by regulation, butthey are still legally binding.
Now the broader issue aboutsome abuses of temporarymigration employees, which wehave seen regrettably underthis Government examples of,such as the 7-Eleven workforceand so forth, there is more todo. We've achieved somesafeguards across the migrationsystem, critical safeguards butthere is more to do down thetrack and if Labor is electedto government, Im sure you willsee that.
JENNETT: I will ask you aboutthat in a moment. Just on one thingyou went into, which was askingfor the 457 base pay, if youlike. You didn't get that, technically you got a review.What confidence do you havethat might deliver the outcomeyou originally sought?
WONG: Actually theoutcome we got in relation towages and conditions, I thinkwas better because in additionto the review, what we got wasregulation - so legally binding - obligation for what's calledthe market salary rate. So thatan overseas worker has to bepaid, to be referenced againstthe enterprise agreement thatwould be applicable. That issaying if there is anenterprise agreement rate, thats obviously going to be a higher rate,that's the market rate anoverseas workers should get. So actually that is a stronger protectionof Australian wages andconditions than the existingsystem and that is a safeguard weare pleased the Governmentwas prepared to agree to.
JENNETT: Okay, let's wind the clockforward and imagine that you areTrade Minister. I think when the deal, the Chinafree trade deal, comes up forreview, what about it mightyou seek to go back andrenegotiate or otherwisealter?
WONG: Look, we made clearthere are aspects of thisagreement we wouldn't havenegotiated. We wouldn't havenegotiated the Chapter 10conditions, which remove labourmarket testing to the tradeslevel, which is why we have hadthe safeguard we wanted inrelation to the enterprisebargaining agreement. We have aprincipled position, we don'tbelieve in Investor StateDispute Settlement clauses and thats our consistent position. We haveadopted that in Government.It's in our platform. We wouldnot negotiate an agreementthat had an ISDS.
JENNETT: Looking at some othereconomic issues around today, we are hearingfrom the departing Joe Hockeysome suggestions to theTurnbull Government. That it increaseand broaden the GST, thatnegative gearing be redirectedso its incentive goes onlytowards new housing stock andthere is super tax concessions. Doyou think the ground hasshifted now since the Abbott era,where it is legitimatefor all things to be, to use aMalcolm Turnbull expression,on the table?
WONG: It wasvery disappointing I think to manyAustralians that the LiberalParty and the Cabinet of whichMr Turnbull was a part refusedto consider reform of our superannuation tax concessionregime. I think that is amust-have reform. So I'm pleasedJoe Hockey has on his way outseen fit to give the approach Labor has been advocating in relation tosuperannuation the tick.
JENNETT: But nothing about the Turnbull ascendency changesLabor thinking on GST. Let'stake that individually.
WONG: The GSTposition Labor holds is notbecause of partisan politics ora dislike of Tony Abbott. Wehave a principled view aboutthat. We think it is aregressive tax and we don't agreewith making it harder,making it more expensive forAustralian families to dealwith the essentials of life, asbeing critical for tax reform.Now in relation to a whole range ofother tax measures, we have beenopen to discussion and I thinkChris Bowen has made thatclear.
JENNETT: Your broader observation of politics underMalcolm Turnbull, what dynamicis changing? Because it appears to be changing, gone is the namecalling, some of the bluster,he is decidedly not using theword racism in relation to where youstood on free trade. Has Laborgot a fix on him yet?
WONG: I thinkAustralians everywhere welcomedthe departure of Tony Abbottfrom the prime ministership andin part it's because he broughtan aggression and a brutalityto his partisanship whichreally got in the way of thenational interest. I think theissue for Mr Turnbull istwofold. One is, he has signedup to many of the things thatwere unpopular that Tony Abbottput in place, the values of the2014 Budget, which were allabout going after those whohave little. He signed up to that.
JENNETT: He is going aboutdismantling some of that.
WONG: And I'mpleased that Labor has had anotherwin there in standing againstthose cuts. But I think theother point about MalcolmTurnbull is, as we know,whatever his personal views ona whole range of social issues,he has had to agree with thehard right in the Liberal Partyon these issues and whilst hemight not agree with them, heis kowtowing to them on some of those social issues.
JENNETT: For thoseobservations and your insightsinto the negotiation process,Penny Wong, thank you.
WONG: Good to be withyou.