ALISON CARABINE: Penny Wong, good morning.

SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good morning, good to be with you.

CARABINE: We are expecting a vote today on this legislation imposing a $15 million threshold on foreign investment in farming land. Anything above $15 million would trigger scrutiny by the Foreign Investment Review Board, but the tough new threshold would only apply to these three countries: China, Korea, Japan. Is it racist?

WONG: It certainly is discriminatory, in that it treats investors differently depending on their countries of origin. As you point out, if youre from Japan, Korea or China you will face much tougher restrictions on foreign investment, investment into Australia, than if you are from the United States or New Zealand.

CARABINE: But Australians cant buy freehold land in China, for example, isnt there a bit of quid pro quo here?

WONG: Lets just start by recalling why foreign investment is important in this country. We have needed foreign investment in Australia since European arrival and the reason we have is that our investment needs have been greater than our capacity to fund them and investment here means more jobs for Australians, it means more economic activity, it means investments in projects and in businesses which generate more profit and more jobs for working Australians. So there is a very important national reason why we have welcomed foreign investment. Now, we need to make sure its in the national interest, which means you need to have a sensible investment scrutiny regime and the problem with the Governments position is it is not sensible. It lacks any policy rationale and it is disappointing that Malcolm Turnbull, who advocates for an open economy, on this is running the line, frankly, that Barnaby Joyce has come up with because he thinks its a good political play in some parts of Australia.

CARABINE: But it just seemed to some people that this is just a very transparent attempt by Labor to try and drive a wedge through the Coalition and there is community anxiety about the level of foreign investment, regardless of all the benefits that you have articulated, Chinese investment in particular. Doesnt a $15 million cap simply reflect public concerns about investment in ag land?

WONG: Malcolm Turnbull and other advocates inside the Liberal Party for the benefits of an open economy should articulate, as we have for some time, why foreign investment is important and why it is necessary. This is an area where leadership is required and there is a reason why so many business groups and a great many agribusiness and farming groups have opposed this. It isnt good policy, it doesnt make political sense. And in terms of Labors agenda here, Ive been on the record since the election on this issue. I have said for some time, and youre welcome to go back and look at my comments over the last couple of years, that the approach that Tony Abbott and Barnaby Joyce were taking was not good for the country.

I want to just give you some examples, if I may-

CARABINE: -Maybe just one-

WONG: -About the inconsistency. The Government has been saying, for example, on agribusiness that it wants all investments over $55 million screened by the Foreign Investment Review Board. That means we will have a stricter regime for investment in food processing than we have in military industries, defence industries and uranium extraction.

CARABINE: And that is where the threshold is $252 million?

WONG: Correct. What is the public policy rationale for saying sensitive sectors like uranium extraction, which we accept is a sensitive sector, or certain defence industries, which everyone would accept are sensitive sectors, food processing investment will be treated more strictly than an investment in one of those sensitive sectors.

CARABINE: But Penny Wong, you do talk about the benefits of an open economy, arent we getting some mixed messages from Labor? You fought the importation of Chinese workers under the China Free Trade Agreement, but now you want to make it easier to attract Chinese investment into Australian farms. As the Nationals Senator John Williams puts it, and this is a quote from Wacka Williams: Penny Wong wants to sell off our farm land, lets sell them what the land grows, but not the land. How do you answer what does seem to be a bit of a contradiction between your approach to the China Free Trade Agreement and your approach to Chinese investment in agricultural land?

WONG: Ill leave to your listeners to decide whether or not theres any xenophobic undertone to Senator Williams comments about Penny Wong wants to sell them the land. But leaving that to one side, our position is entirely consistent. The reason we had concerns with those aspects of the China Free Trade Agreement which allowed Chinese workers to come in without labour market testing is because we are concerned about Australian jobs. We think Australians should have the opportunity to obtain jobs, for which theyre appropriately skilled, which are generated by investment and trade.

We also think Australians should have the opportunity to get jobs that are generated by the sort of foreign direct investment that you and I are discussing. So our position is entirely consistent, its about jobs here Australia, and all the Governments changes will do is make it more difficult for jobs creating investment to come into this country. Thats not in the national interest.

CARABINE: Penny Wong, you are Labors Senate Leader, so if I could take you quickly to a few other issues. The Government's Citizenship Bill will be introduced today, constitutional lawyers say the various amendments have improved the bill, but it does remain deeply flawed, it could be vulnerable to High Court challenge, it will still be possible for the Government to unilaterally find someone should have their citizenship stripped, which does raise questions about the separation of powers. Will Labor be moving its own amendments to the bill to try and tidy up some of these issues?

WONG: The amendments that will be moved are government amendments arising out of the report that the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security, of which I am a member, recommended and there were certainly many problems with the bill that was introduced into the Parliament. I think the Committee has dealt with a great many of concerns, I appreciate not all from the perspective of some people, but the Opposition obviously always has to balance the national security issues with the rights of Australians to-

CARABINE: -And youve got that balance right now, no Labor amendments?

WONG: Look, I think the Committee dealt with some of the really problematic provisions in the bill. I think the retrospectivity was tightened up in terms of the length of conviction required, the conduct based offices, which are the ones many of the legal groups had concerns with, have been tightened up, particularly in terms of conduct in Australia. We had the position where, as you might recall, where property based offences might give rise to peoples citizenship being revoked and so those provisions have been changed.

I think there are a great many amendments which were put in through the Committee report, which are appropriate and Labor has indicated its in-principle support for the bill.

CARABINE: And we will also soon see legislation lowering the age at which control orders can apply to 14. What will Labors position be on this bill? WONG: Ive only seen the public reports on that. Obviously we will look at that carefully, I havent seen the detail.

CARABINE: Do you think 14 is too young to be subject to a control order?

WONG: I think these are very difficult issues and you always have to balance, as I said, national security concerns and the circumstances we live in currently with appropriate civil liberty concerns. And we always seek to balance those in a sensible considered way, and thats how well approach this legislation.

CARABINE: Malcolm Turnbull, just finally, heads overseas today, his first major trip as Prime Minister, first stop Jakarta. Would you be expecting better relations with Indonesia under Malcolm Turnbull than Tony Abbott, or will this just be one relationship which will always have its ups and downs, thats inevitable?

WONG: Setting aside partisanship just for a moment, the relationship with Indonesia is extremely important to Australia and its a relationship where a lot of work is required, not just by political parties, political leaders and both parties of government when in opposition and in government, but also at the business level our trade relationship is less deep and economically valuable than it could be. Weve got more work to do there and I think in people to people contacts-

CARABINE: -What about the person to person contact between Malcolm Turnbull and Joko Widodo when they sit down for lunch?

WONG: Well, I hope Mr Turnbull makes an effort to prioritise this relationship. I think its a relationship that needs to be strong in the national interest and I hope he does that and we always would offer strong bipartisan support for a strong relationship with Indonesia.

CARABINE: Penny Wong, thanks for coming in.

WONG: Good to be with you.