FRAN KELLY: Shadow Foreign Minister Penny Wong will meet Benjamin Netanyahu on Friday. She joins us from Adelaide this morning. Penny Wong, good morning, welcome back to Breakfast.
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good morning Fran, good to be with you.
KELLY: Kevin Rudd and Bob Hawke have put themselves at odds with official Labor Party policy at the moment. Theyve lost patience with Israel. They say Australia should formally recognise the State of Palestine. Are they wrong?
WONG: I think Kevin and Bob and many others in the party, like many others around the country, care deeply about the Israeli Palestinian conflict. People are very concerned about these issues and the lack of progress and actions such as the continued Settlements building which is regarded as a roadblock to peace. The comments that have been made by Kevin and Bob and others do reflect these concerns.
KELLY: So, should Labor Party policy be changed?
WONG: The Labor Party policy is very clear. The Platform says this is something that a future Labor Government would consider. Labor has made very clear, Ive made very clear, as has Bill, our view that a just and fair Two State Solution is the only pathway to peace and security for both the Palestinians and the Israelis.
KELLY: Yes, Labors support for a Two State Solution is all very well, but to quote Bob Hawke there is little hope in the political process. Currently there are no peace talks, there havent been any since Israel suspended negotiations three years ago. Is it time for a new approach?
WONG: The Platform really does leave that as a decision for a future Labor Government. And I think thats reasonable. You dont make declaration such as these from Opposition.
KELLY: Why not?
WONG: Well, I think that the focus here should be what is it that we can do? What is it that we can articulate that supports a Two State Solution? As you will know, weve made a number of statements. Weve also come out very clearly and publicly opposing the recent legislation to pass the Knesset legalising unlawful Settlements and weve said that is a roadblock to peace.
KELLY: So youre opposed to the Settlements.
WONG: And the Platform makes clear that this is a matter that would be considered if there is no progress. A future Labor Government would consider recognising Palestine in conjunction with like-minded nations.
KELLY: Yes, but isnt that a pretty wishy-washy position? Couldnt you from Opposition be forming a position, if in fact this is what the party is predisposed to do? To recognise Palestine, as 137 other countries have done, and put pressure on the Australian Government to do the same, if you believe that is the right position?
WONG: Well Fran, Ive told you what the National Platform is, and that was the position - and obviously there are a range of views inside the party, which is no secret that was agreed at the highest and most democratic forum of the Labor Party. And that is the position that we have.
I do think it is important to recognise there are range of ways in which we can add our voice to the voices of many around the world who are seeking more progress on this issue, and I think weve done that.
I mean I dont think that simply focussing on a single issue is sensible. I think its important that we, in the face of some others walking away from a Two State Solution, that we continue to hold fast to that. It is the only option which enables both peace and security for the Israeli and Palestinian peoples. Its important to come out very clearly when you oppose actions that are unhelpful to that, such as the legislation retroactively legalising Settlements, which I discussed earlier.
KELLY: Youll be meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Friday I understand. Will you and Bill Shorten be making that position clear to him?
WONG: I think you should anticipate, as Bill said, that Labors public position will be reflected in such private meetings. Labor has a long-standing relationship with Israel. As you know Doc Evatt, a Labor Foreign Minister, was involved in the establishment of Israel. But friends can put our views and our views are very clearly that a number of actions in which Mr Netanyahus Government has engaged are not helpful to enabling a Two State Solution, nor helpful to the peace process.
KELLY: Are you concerned that Donald Trumps position on a Two State Solution, which appears to be a watered down support for that, and no condemnation of the Settlements, that that might influence the Australian Governments position?
WONG: If it did that would not be a sensible response from the Australian Government. There are times where presidents assert things which are not consistent with Labors foreign policy interests, and I think moving away from the Two State Solution would not be consistent with Labors position or the Coalition Governments position.
I note that Malcolm Turnbull did respond with an indication that the Government retained its support for a Two State Solution and I would encourage them to do so. I think it is very important that voices around the world make clear that we are not moving away from that proposition.
KELLY: Our Foreign Minister Julie Bishop is in Washington. Shell be speaking with the Vice-President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. We know the new Administration is working up a plan to defeat ISIS and that should be completed by next week, according to the Presidents timetable. If Australia is asked to contribute more troops to that mission, would Labor support that?
WONG: Thats a hypothetical isnt it?
KELLY: Well, its a likely one.
WONG: Theres been no proposition put to us, and as Richard Marles said theres been no case made to us, as to why Australia should extend our already significant military contribution to the conflict against Daesh.
In any decision in relation to contributing to a military operation theres only one principle, and that is what is Australias national interest. And that is how we would approach it, and I trust thats how the Government would approach any such request.
KELLY: Im presuming you and Richard Marles and Bill Shorten are anticipating or thinking about this what if though. I mean, what if the request was for more Australian troops, would that be in Australias national interest?
WONG: I think that there hasnt been a case made publicly as to why extending Australias current commitment to the fight against Daesh would be in Australias national interest.
But as I said it is a hypothetical. We would consider any request in the context of national interest, but bearing in mind, as I said, that this is not something on which the case has yet has been made.
KELLY: If there is a request should that request come to the Parliament for debate?
WONG: Thats a question about War Powers, and I know thats a positon that some, particularly the Greens, in the Parliament have been pushing. I think that John Faulkner, when Defence Minister, had it about right, that committing troops remains an issue for the Executive, but there is a place for Parliamentary scrutiny and Parliamentary debate.
KELLY: So is that a yes?
WONG: No, the position is that this remains a decision for the Executive, but there should be appropriate reporting to the Parliament and appropriate debate but ultimately its Governments which make these decisions.
KELLY: Can I just ask you finally on another matter, Liberal MP David Coleman has prepared draft legislation for fixed four year terms. Now, that is Labors policy, will you support this legislation with a view to getting the Constitutional change through at the next election?
WONG: As a Senator the thing that always concerns me about the proposition of four year terms is under our current system it would lead to an eight year term for Senators.
KELLY: Youd love that wouldnt you?
WONG: It leads to an eight year term for a Senator without facing the people and I think we probably should face them a bit more often than that dont you think?
KELLY: Do you think non-fixed three year terms are good enough, deliver the best democracy?
WONG: Many of the longer term decision Governments have to make, some of the challenges Governments have to face, would benefit from a longer time frame. Most of us who have been in Government would say that. But there are a lot of issues that have to be resolved and obviously Im a Senator so one of the ones Id be focussed on is how do you ensure your Senate remains democratic.
KELLY: Senator Wong, thank you very much for joining us.
WONG: Good to speak with you.