FRAN KELLY: Were joined now by the Labor leader in the Senate and Shadow Foreign Minister Penny Wong. Senator Wong, welcome back to Breakfast.
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good morning Fran, good to be with you.
KELLY: You heard Malcolm Turnbull there speaking overnight, insisting hes never called for anyone to be fired. His only complaints were about impartiality and accuracy. Does that reassure you about the independence, the political independence of the ABC?
WONG: I don't think the public can be reassured at all about what's been going on and whatever Mr Turnbull says, if these allegations are true it appears after that conversation, the Chairman of the ABC, after meeting with the Prime Minister of Australia and the responsible Liberal Minister, has sought that a journo be sacked. These are the actions of a tinpot dictatorship, these are not the actions of the Australian democracy.
Youve also mentioned the email in relation to Ms Alberici and make the point, I think it was in that communication it is alleged to have been said that some public funding was linked to this decision. This is extraordinary, that a Liberal Government might actually be demanding tame reporting in order to ensure proper funding of the ABC, which of course, as you know, despite promising to the contrary, they have cut by hundreds of millions of dollars.
KELLY: Can I play you another grab of Malcolm Turnbull speaking overnight. Lets just listen to this.
Everybody is entitled to express their views about the ABC and ministers, prime ministers do and have done always, thats very important, the ABC engages with government but I want to be very clear that the ABC is independent.
So, that comment there, Everybody is entitled to express their views including prime ministers, is that fair enough? And was the Prime Minister just expressing his view? Its up to how the Chairman interpreted that? Do you think that is what has gone on here?
WONG: We werent in the room, but we can see is, as I said, if the allegations are correct, what was communicated afterwards and this goes beyond a complaint about accuracy. This goes to the Chairman of the Board, demanding after this meeting that a reporter be moved on, that a reporter be sacked. That is treating a public broadcaster really as a propaganda outlet.
Now I understand that the Coalition, so many of them hate the ABC. I understand they were happy to cut it, I understand the former Prime Minister and the current minister have spent an enormous amount of time complaining about the ABC. But this really goes to a principle of the Australian democracy. This is a public broadcaster. It exists to serve the public, not the government of the day and we must all be standing firm for the principle of independence. Now, there are times the ABC reports things I dont agree with.
KELLY: Do you complain? Do you make official complaint?
WONG: I dont think Ive ever made an official complaint but this is about people who control the purse strings linking this to funding. And it is about the Prime Minister allegedly, the Liberal Prime Minister, if the email is to be believed, if the reporting is correct, suggesting that a reporter be sacked.
KELLY: Now, Malcolm Turnbull, as we have heard, has denied that. It wouldn't be the first time a Chairman or an MD second-guesses the wishes, I suppose, of their financial backers to keep them happy and keep the purse strings open. Do you think that is what has gone on here? Malcolm Turnbull says he hasnt called for anyone to be sacked. We don't know that they were demanding tame reporting, but everything were reading coming from the Chairman seems to be suggesting thats how he's interpreting it and passing that pressure on.
WONG: Correct, that is precisely the case. And what I would say is this demonstrates why Mr Milne must front up. We intend to establish a Senate inquiry to get to the bottom of this. We think the public demand it. That is the expectation of the Australian people.
Mr Milne cant sit back and allow these sorts of deeply serious allegations to go unanswered. He should front the Senate inquiry and he should front the public and he should tell the truth.
KELLY: Bill Shorten has said the position of the Chairman is untenable. Is that Labors view?
WONG: Certainly if he is unable to front the media, front the Senate Inquiry, and tell the truth, allay peoples fears, I think his position is untenable.
KELLY: The Senate isnt sitting, I think, for another two and a half weeks, it will be another three weeks before we get a Senate inquiry if we got one, is the Chairmans position tenable for that time?
WONG: I think he needs to make a public response today because the allegations are so serious, and they do go to his own credibility, but they also go to the legislative and political requirements of the Board of the ABC. The actions which are suggested are inconsistent with the Charter of the ABC, they are inconsistent with public expectations and they need to be responded to.
KELLY: The Prime Minister has ordered that the Communications Department conduct an inquiry into all of this. Are you prepared to wait for the results of that inquiry before moving to establish any kind of Senate inquiry?
WONG: No, we are not.
KELLY: Why not?
WONG: I think Michelle Rowland was very clear about that yesterday. We do not have faith in this Government to be open and transparent when it comes to public institutions like the ABC.
KELLY: Do you have faith in the department to be open and transparent?
WONG: They serve the government of the day and I think this government has demonstrated it is prepared to politicise too many matters. We have seen, frankly, highly politicised appointments to the Treasury. Whatever peoples view about the relevant public servants I dont think the Australian people, and certainly the Labor Party, doesnt have faith that this government will not make this inquiry a whitewash at a political level. I think we need a public inquiry.
KELLY: We heard there from Cory Bernardi on AM, he's not interested in a Senate inquiry, at least before we hear the results of an internal inquiry. But if you get your Senate inquiry what would be the terms of it? What would be the brief of it?
WONG: I think the public are entitled to know what has gone on. The public are entitled to know whether members of the Board, including the Chairman and members of the Government, including the former Prime Minister and the current minister are behaving in ways that are inconsistent with the ABCs charter, with the principles of independence, and frankly its role as a public broadcaster.
And I want to keep saying that. The ABC serves the public. It does not serve any politician.
KELLY: Penny Wong can I just turn briefly to your portfolio for a moment. The comments from Donald Trump to the UN General Assembly yesterday where he rejected globalism and said the world should embrace patriotism over globalism. He also attacked China for what he calls an abusive trade relationship. Should Australia be worried about these kinds of comments coming from our key ally?
WONG: Both parties of Government have expressed concern about the way in which the current US Administration is dealing with world trading arrangements. We have a very strong interest, Australia, given our size and given our reliance on trade and trading arrangements, which are open, transparent and fair.
So, those concerns have been expressed, but more broadly, on the issue of globalism, can I make this point? We do better when we work together. We do better when we work together to address those sorts of problems which no one country can address. The Labor Party has always been committed to multilateralism. Obviously it's not perfect, but it is a far better approach to try to ensure that the world works together rather than work in competition.
KELLY: And just briefly can I get your response to more comments from Donald Trump overnight? He's alleging Chinese interference in the mid-term elections in November. From your political vantage point here in Australia, does that gel with some concerns that have been expressed over the last year of Chinese intervention or influence-seeking in political parties here?
WONG: There's been a lot of commentary over the last year about Australia, there's been a lot of commentary since the last election in the US as well about the potential for foreign interference. I think the principle is what is important and we don't want any foreign interference or influence in our democratic processes, and we should have our legislative and regulatory framework established to ensure that it doesn't occur. That's why we passed legislation that I think you and I discussed previously, about foreign interference and foreign influence, and that's why the Government should press ahead with banning foreign donations, which as yet they have not done.
KELLY: Penny Wong, thank you very much for joining us.
WONG: Thank you.
Authorised by Noah Carroll, ALP, Canberra.