CARABINE: Joining me in Canberra is Finance Minister, Penny Wong.
WONG: Good to be with you.
CARABINE: The Marriage Amendment Bill wont pass. What then has been the point of this debate?
WONG: This is a very important debate. Its a very important discussion to be having, and I think the fact that so many people in the Australian community support what I and others in the Parliament are saying - the principle of equality - is a great thing. As you say, because Tony Abbott has chosen to ensure that the Liberal Party doesn't have a free vote, it will mean that it's very difficult for this bill to pass. But, sometimes you lose something and then you win on a subsequent occasion, and I've been in politics long enough to know that that's the case. Its a very important part of the national debate and continuing to press the agenda and I think in the last year we've seen a lot of movement on this issue.
CARABINE: Youll speak to the bill in the Senate this morning, what does this mean to you on a personal level?
WONG: I think for many Australians, not just for me, it means something very important. It means
CARABINE: but you're at the front line of this campaign...
WONG: That's true. But what this is about is equality. And it's also about recognising the worth of our relationships. And the reason that so many Australians do care about this issue is not only because it is about them, but it might be about their daughter or their son or their sister or their brother or their friend. And this is the reason why I think sentiment on this has shifted is because people do see in their lives the reality of the love and commitment in relationships around them.
CARABINE: Many politicians have very strong views on this question. Ron Boswell told the Senate yesterday that he, quote, "cannot imagine a more savage attack on the family". You have a family, but not one that Ron Boswell would regard as traditional. How deep does that type of criticism cut?
WONG: Well, Senator Boswell sounded like he was talking in the 1950s. There were many aspects of his speech which were, frankly, quite prejudiced. Things like talking about the normalisation of homosexuality. Well, we are normal Ron, and we're here. I think it is really unfortunate that, for some people in this debate, that has become the level of the discussion.
CARABINE: And do you believe that marriage equality is inevitable? That even when the vote goes down that momentum has been built up to such an extent that we will see same-sex marriage rights in this country?
WONG: I do. I think that we might lose this vote but we won't lose the argument and we certainly won't lose, in the medium term, the campaign. Because I think the aspiration for equality is a very powerful one and for many people this is about the people they care about most in the world. So, we're not going to walk away from it.
CARABINE: How much is Julia Gillard to blame for this vote going down this week? You seconded the motion to change ALP policy platform to advocate marriage equality, but instead of changing the law in line with the platform, the Prime Minister opted for a conscience vote which was always going to lose. That's the same for all four bills. Isn't the real culprit therefore the Prime Minister and not Tony Abbott?
WONG: I don't agree. I think that the Prime Minister has demonstrated leadership on this issue within the party by recognising, despite the fact she has different views - different views to mine - that people wanted to vote for equality. The person I think is most responsible for the fact that we're likely not to succeed on this occasion is Tony Abbott who doesn't want the party of individual freedom - that is, the Liberal Party - to actually have a free vote on this issue.
CARABINE: Penny Wong, in your capacity as Finance Minister, Barry O'Farrell wants changes to the GST to ease the squeeze on stressed state budgets. Your Government has ruled this out, why is there no appetite to at least debate the issue from either the Government or the Opposition?
WONG: Because increasing the GST would not ease the squeeze on families, to use your phrase. You've got to look to your values and your priorities in tax reform or in savings and we don't believe as a Labor Government that the way to deal with what are pretty difficult fiscal circumstances for all governments is to ask families who are already experiencing cost of living pressures to pay more.
CARABINE: But there is research by KPMG Econtech which shows not just higher GDP but higher standards of living for households if the GST rate was either increased or broadened; in its place inefficient State taxes would be scrapped. As the Finance Minister that must appeal to you ...
WONG: We'd like inefficient state taxes to be scrapped. The question is whether or not that can be done. And I don't believe that the way through that is to simply tell families they've got to pay the cost of tax reform.
CARABINE: But lifting the GST to 15 per cent would generate an extra $25 billion for the states. If the states had more cash, there wouldn't be the need to cut jobs and services as we are seeing in some states, including Queensland. Could reforming the GST save jobs and services?
WONG: I think all governments, including ours, have had to deal with revenue write downs and have had to do with constrained fiscal environment. What we're seeing particularly in Queensland, but also NSW and Victoria, is the Liberal approach to making a budget balance which is to sack people and to cut front line services. That's how they're doing it and it's been made very clear by members of Mr Abbott's front bench that's how he would propose to do it.
CARABINE: But the Commonwealth is also cutting jobs, about 3,000 this year, and we often hear the Government boasting about the money it has saved over the past five budgets or so, I think it's about $130 billion.
WONG: Thats right.
CARABINE: Isn't it a bit rich and even hypocritical for the Government to be criticising the states?
WONG: But we've taken a very different approach. We've taken a very different approach. We've taken an approach which says the priority is non-staff savings and if you look we've found savings in travel, in ICT, in advertising. That's where we've looked for savings. The reality is the Coalition governments, particularly in Queensland - and Joe Hockey's made it clear he will take the same approach, he says the first thing we'd cut is jobs. That's not the approach the Labor Government has taken. Yes, weve had to make hard decisions, but weve always sought to be responsible and fair when making those hard decisions. We've certainly not said, you know what, were going to tell people before the election the public service has nothing to fear as Premier Newman did and then come out and say we're going to sack 14,000 people.
CARABINE: Its 21 minutes to eight on Radio National Breakfast, my guest this morning is the Finance Minister, Penny Wong. Minister, last week the Queensland Government announced it was jacking up mining royalties by $1.6 billion over four years. Have you calculated how big a hole this will punch in the Federal Governments mining tax revenue?
WONG: First, on the royalties issue. I think its important to understand why royalties are a bad thing. It is an inefficient tax. And they punish small and unprofitable or less profitable miners as much or more than they are levied on profitable miners. Thats why the mining industry doesnt like them. Thats why seeking to not have royalties and to have the MRRT. And thats why weve seen people like the Queensland Resources Council say that these Queensland royalty increases will cost Queensland jobs. Its not me saying that, its the mining industry.
CARABINE: And it will also cost Commonwealth revenue how much?
WONG: Weve asked the GST Review to look at the ways in which we might discourage states from jacking up royalties, because its not good for the industry and its not good for jobs.
CARABINE: Have you decided yet how to claw the money back? Will it be either deducting GST payments or withholding infrastructure money?
WONG: The Treasurer has referred this issue to the GST Review Panel and well await their response.
CARABINE: This could hurt the budget surplus, is that a correct assumption to make, Minister? And will you need to make more dramatic cuts to be assured of delivering that surplus?
WONG: We remain committed to delivering a surplus. Of course it is harder particularly because of where commodity prices are and the Treasurers made that clear previously. But that remains the Governments commitment for the reasons weve outlined because its the right thing to do when the economy is growing, unemployment where it is, and inflation contained. I think its important to remember that were in a very good position in this nation compared to most other countries. Weve grown nearly 11 per cent since this Government came to power and thats a good thing but weve also go to look to the future which is why were investing in schools, education and the NBN.
CARABINE: Penny Wong, thanks very much for your time.
WONG: Good to be with you.
ENDS