PATRICIA KARVELAS: Penny Wong is the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate. Thanks for making the time to talk to us.

SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good to speak with you Patricia.

KARVELAS: How late is tonight going to run, how long can Labor filibuster for?

WONG: Weve only just got to the committee stage, which is where you examine the bill in close detail, so I reject the sort of filibuster word because youve got to remember this is actually being pushed through. For a change like this you would usually have a lengthy committee process on the bill, there was a half day hearing. So this committee process in the Senate, as opposed to proper inquiry with public submissions is really the only time well get to properly ask questions about the legislation.

KARVELAS: You oppose Senate reforms but their passage at some stage tonight is pretty much inevitable with this Greens-Coalition deal. So in the interim are you just out to inflict as much political damage on the Greens as possible, because thats how it looks on the outside.

WONG: No, thats not the case. I do think the Greens are inflicting political damage on themselves by doing a deal with the Liberals to the exclusion of independents and minor parties and frankly risking the Coalition getting a working majority in the Senate. I think thats very clearly what theyve done, theyve been prepared to sacrifice the risk of a working majority for the Coalition in order to try to benefit themselves. But if your question is about marriage equality Im very happy to explain what has occurred today and I know its hard from a distance to understand the details of Senate procedure.

What were operating under this week is motion where a number of bills are listed and they all have to be resolved before theyre passed. And theres actually 12 bills in addition to the Senate voting changes which are before the Chamber and all of these have to be dealt with before we fly out. What Senator Leyonhjelm sought to do both on Tuesday and Thursday is to add marriage equality to that list, so what that would have meant is full debate and a vote on marriage equality before we went home not only on marriage equality, but on all these bills including the Senate changes. Unfortunately the Greens political party chose, not once, but twice to vote against ensuring that marriage equality could have been debated and voted on this week.

KARVELAS: But Penny Wong, earlier this week the Greens werent keen on the same-sex marriage vote, youre right, but then today they changed tack and pushed for a vote, but Labor actually sided with the Coalition to deny that vote.

WONG: Lets remember, at 9:30 again today Senator Leyonhjelm moved another motion to put marriage equality into the list of bills that have to be debated and voted on fully before we leave tonight, this weekend, or whenever the Senate rises. The Greens chose to oppose that, they then went into the Chamber and sought to gag debate on a Private Senators bill after 45 minutes and theyve said that was the vote on marriage equality we wanted. Now I can be clear with you, Im a strong advocate for marriage equality, I do not believe that this matter should be gagged in order to bring on a vote after 45 minutes when many Senators have not had the opportunity to put their position to the Chamber.

KARVELAS: But whatever you think of the Greens motives today, you could have chosen to support the vote and you didnt.

WONG: No, they chose-

KARVELAS: -But you also chose to vote at one stage against it-

WONG: -I will not support a gag. I dont support gagging and they have chosen not once but twice not to support it being fully debated and voted on this week. And there is a question if youre talking to Senator Di Natale, because he has had-

KARVELAS: -I am-

WONG: -Contradictory explanations on this. He has never explained why the Greens would not support including marriage equality in the list of bills that has to be resolved, debated and voted on this week. And Ill tell you why, because the real reason he couldnt support it is his deal with the Liberal Party prevents him from agreeing-

KARVELAS: -But then he did and they changed tack today, which I say, so did he break the deal, whats your allegation?

WONG: What I just said to you, why did he not on two occasions take the opportunity to put marriage equality into the list of bills that has to fully debated and voted on this week.

KARVELAS: Absolutely. But even what youre saying to me-

WONG: And can I tell you why? Because the deal with the Government prevents him from doing so. So the only vote he had today was the vote that the Liberal Party let him have, which is a gag after 45 minutes. Thats the only vote he allowed.

KARVELAS: But Senator Wong with respect you are still mentioning the Greens and they didnt vote and we did this but no one is talking about marriage equality in any passionate way. These are tactics from you, from the Greens, from everyone. Its very patently clear to us.

WONG: Can I be clear? I dont think it is playing politics to take the opportunity to progress this important reform. And I think having a full debate and vote would have helped. Now I am happy to argue passionately about the principle of marriage equality and I can refer you to many speeches and many interviews including on your program where I have.

KARVELAS: And Richard Di Natale is passionate about it too isnt he?

WONG: I accept that which makes it all the more disappointing that he allowed the Liberal Party to nobble him when it came to ensuring there was a full debate and vote. But you are right, the one thing I would say on this is that we also know that ultimately to get this reform through were going to have to have the Liberal Party granting a conscience vote and I would suggest to you I think were going to have to have a Labor Government. Because it is very clear that Malcolm Turnbull whether on this or on the Safe Schools issue is capitulating to the hard right of the Liberal Party.

KARVELAS: On that issue, on the Safe Schools Program government supporters of the program have spoken out today. Weve heard from Simon Birmingham, Christopher Pyne, Warren Entsch, and in question time the Prime Minister echoed a previous statement he has made on the subject, here he is. [PLAYS GRAB]. What more do you want from the government, what do you expect, that is a pretty clear statement from the Prime Minister.

WONG: And yeah, George Christensen appears to be listening doesnt he?

KARVELAS: What is he meant to do, what would you do?

WONG: I would come out and say what Mr Christensen has said is unacceptable. And we are continuing to support this program because it is about the risks for LGBTI young people. We know that the risk of self-harm, the mental health concerns for our gay and lesbian young people are at frightening levels. And this is a program about ensuring that more children are safe. I welcome that finally some of the moderates have found their voice, I do. I genuinely welcome Christopher Pyne and Simon Birmingham and others who have finally found their voice on this issue. The problem that we have seen is that we have seen extraordinary language from those on the side of, I think frankly, prejudice, who dont like teaching our children tolerance. And were seeing too much silence from the moderates. So I welcome the fact that today were finally seeing the Liberal moderates finding their voice. Ultimately Patricia people like George Christensen and Senator Cory Bernardi, they are not interested in facts or logic. Ultimately the only way to stand up to them is for Malcolm Turnbull and the Liberal Party to show courage.

KARVELAS: Well he would argue he already has. Before I let you go how much coffee are you consuming to get through the night, have you packed your pyjamas?

WONG: You are very focused on peoples pyjamas, Im a little worried about that.

KARVELAS: I am obsessed with pyjamas.

WONG: I dont think it would look very good in the chamber if I rocked up in pyjamas.

KARVELAS: All right wear your day clothes.

WONG: I will be doing so.

KARVELAS: And that is Penny Wong the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and the Shadow Minister for Trade and Investment.