ALISON CARABINE: Penny Wong, thanks for coming in.
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good to be with you.
CARABINE: Well get to the Asylum Seeker Bill in a moment. But first, to whats going on in the Senate at the moment. Labor supports the referral of both Bob Day and Rod Culleton to the High Court. Can I take it from that that you believe that having both referred to the Court of Disputed Returns will work in Labors favour?
WONG: Its very important that the Senate behave responsibly here and not with regard to any partisanship. The question is have there been facts raised which give rise to a question of the eligibility. I think there have, and this will be a matter for the Senate today.
But I have to say, what a week we have here in the Senate. A Senate frankly that is in chaos. A Senate which was returned after a double dissolution that the Prime Minister demanded in order to clean out the Senate. Now hes got a couple of Senators having to go to the Court of Disputed Returns.
The very Bill that he said was the reason for the double dissolution isnt even going to be debated this year, that is the Australian Building and Construction Commission Bill.
CARABINE: It might be debated this year. The Prime Minister, on AM, was pretty determined to get that Bill in once hes got the numbers.
WONG: I think this is a Government and a Prime Minister with no agenda and no authority and no achievement. The Senate program demonstrates that. Two Senators being referred to the Court of Disputed Returns. Their flagship legislation not even in the Parliament. George Brandis, the Leader of the Government in the Senate, is going to be the subject of a report in relation to his attack on the Solicitor-General, which will be returned on Tuesday. None of these, obviously, are issues that really go to the economic circumstances of most Australians.
CARABINE: So, you describe the situation in the Senate as chaos. There is a perception at least of disarray. How hell bent will Labor be trying to capitalise on that disorder? Are you going to be even more determined to block legislation? Use every Senate tactic at your disposal to try to disrupt Senate procedures?
WONG: We will take an approach that reflects what Labors principles and Labors agenda is. So, for example, on the Plebiscite legislation, which is up for debate, weve made our view on that clear. In relation to the referrals of the two Senators to the High Court, as Ive said to you at the outset, were not going to be partisan about that. This is a very serious matter. It has happened very rarely since Federation, certainly youve never had two Senators referred on the same day to the High Court, to the Court of Disputed Returns. We will certainly approach that soberly and seriously as we have to date.
CARABINE: Okay, well move on to the refugee legislation. I know Shadow Cabinet wont be making its final decision until tonight, but already weve had Labor MPs calling it extreme, evil, theyre just a few of the descriptors. Bill Shorten says its ludicrous. Given that, how could you even consider supporting this Bill?
WONG: Lets understand this legislation. A Prime Minister without an agenda has looked desperately for a political stunt. And you dont really need my word for that, have a look at what has happened since. They make this big announcement to certain selected media outlets and since that time weve learnt about different changes to deal with some of the more ludicrous aspects of it, including what was again put out today to the media that there would be some wide Ministerial discretion to deal with all of the absurdities that people have been pointing out.
This frankly demonstrates that the Prime Minister doesnt have an agenda. That hes desperately searching for a political hit.
CARABINE: But it could also be a political solution, not just a political stunt, or a political hit. The legislation appears to be the forerunner to a deal on third country settlement. If you block it, could you be jeopardising any chance, at least in the foreseeable future, for refugees on Manus and Nauru getting off those islands?
WONG: If that is the case, the Government should come out and show us that. I mean youre right, resettlement is an urgent priority, and the Government has sat on its hands when it comes to those on Manus and Nauru. But, at the moment, we dont have the Government explaining that. We have the Government trying to go on about an issue they think will help them. Weve got a political stunt, not a political solution.
CARABINE: So if the Government can show you what it is working on, re a third country settlement arrangement, you would consider supporting the legislation?
WONG: I find it very hard to see, how banning somebody from ever coming to Australia as a tourist so for example lets say someone is resettled in New Zealand. Prime Minister Key has already said were not going to accept two sorts of New Zealand citizens. But for arguments purpose, the Governments legislation, as originally announced said someone who resettles in New Zealand, becomes a successful business person, would be denied a tourist visa to Australia
CARABINE: But thats where Ministerial Discretion would come in
WONG: In order to resolve an absurdity from the legislation itself. I fail to see any argument which suggests that that proposition is necessary for resettlement. And if the Government is serious about resettlement, instead of playing political games and sending Peter Dutton out to do a Tony Abbott-lite impersonation in an attempt to get some political mileage, perhaps they should have a serious discussion about what their plans are?
CARABINE: Penny Wong well move on to the Racial Discrimination Act. It looks like Cabinet will refer 18C to the Human Rights Committee for an inquiry. The Prime Minister, you would have heard him this morning on AM, he says such a review would have considerable merit. Now that that long-running Queensland University of Technology case has been thrown out of court, why not take another look at the words insult and offend, which are embedded in the Act?
WONG: You dont judge legislation by one case. There are many, many cases
CARABINE: Many vexatious cases?
WONG: Many cases that are taken under these provisions which are simply resolved by conciliation. And in fact my recollection is that the vast majority of cases which come before the Commission, under Section 18C, are resolved by conciliation. So, thats the first point.
The second point is this; we all know whats really happening here. There are a number of, shall we call them cultural warriors on the Right of the Liberal Party, for whom this is an obsession. And it is an obsession. So, theyre not obsessed with wages of working people. Theyre not obsessed with how we make housing more affordable. Theyre obsessed with this provision in a piece of legislation under which the overwhelming majority of cases are resolved by agreement.
CARABINE: But would Labor support a referral to the Human Rights Committee?
WONG: Ive not seen anything from the Government that makes clear what they are proposing. But, as always, what I would be concerned about, is that this inquiry would simply be a stalking horse for those warriors on the right for whom this would be an obsession.
CARABINE: Okay, Penny Wong, just finally, if I could take you to the US Presidential election, Bill Shorten has called Donald Trump barking mad, Tanya Plibersek says hes dangerous, youre the Shadow Foreign Minister, youre the one who would have to make the relationship work, if indeed Donald Trump become President and there is a Labor Government during the Presidency in this country. Is it really that wise for Labor to be so pre-emptively critical of a potential US President?
WONG: Well this is an unusual US election isnt it, when youve got Republicans themselves criticising the Republican nominee. So, this is an unusual election. And certainly people have become quite concerned and exercised by it.
But what I would say to you is this; whatever peoples personal views about any particular candidate, and I note Cory Bernardi was suggesting Hillary Clinton was corrupt last week, and I thought that was most inappropriate.
CARABINE: And your leader says Donald Trump is barking mad.
WONG: Cory Bernardi did that while he was in New York representing the Australian Parliament, so I think the context of that was very different. Whatever peoples personal views, whether it is the Coalition or Labor, we all support the US Alliance and we would continue to work closely with whoever was elected because the Alliance is bigger than any individual.
CARABINE: Penny Wong thanks for your time.
WONG: Good to be with you.