FRAN KELLY: Senator Penny Wong is the Shadow Foreign Minister and Opposition Leader in the Senate and shes in our Parliament House studios. Senator Wong, welcome to RN Breakfast.
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good to be with you Fran.
KELLY: You have long argued against a plebiscite, and speak from compelling personal reasons as well as a broader argument. If you do block the enabling legislation arent you giving the conservatives in the Liberal Party exactly what they want, which is Marriage Equality pushed out to the never never?
WONG: Lets start with why a plebiscite is bad and then Ill come to answer that aspect of your question.
The plebiscite is a political deceit imposed upon the Coalition by Tony Abbott and the conservatives. It would be expensive, divisive and it is non-binding. Theyve made clear that they wont support Marriage Equality even were a plebiscite held and passed.
We havent had plebiscite as part of our political system - I think the only one really in one hundred years apart from those in the 19161917 period around Conscription has been a vote on the National Anthem. It is a deceit that Malcolm Turnbull doesn't agree with. We know that because, before he became Prime Minister, he argued against it. Now what has happened is he lacks political courage. He has lacked the courage to do what he knows is right and he has lacked the courage as Prime Minister and leader of the Liberal Party to deliver Marriage Equality in the quickest way possible, which is to enable a free vote in the Parliament.
Now we have said for some time we have deep concerns about the plebiscite for the reasons I have outlined. But can I say your last part of your question which says oh, well just give the conservatives what they want, what we want and what most Australians want is a vote in the Parliament and pressure needs to be applied to Malcolm Turnbull and to all those so-called moderates who are now not having the courage of their own convictions, who are now bowing and scraping to the hard right who will never agree with equality.
KELLY: Part of that is the point isnt it? Malcolm Turnbull went to an election promising a plebiscite. He won. The Liberal Party room, we know, will not let Malcolm Turnbull agree to a free vote in the Parliament, which is Labors position, so that is not going to happen.
WONG: Ive been in politics for a while and I know that political pressure and public pressure does shift peoples positions. The issue we are talking about is one where that has happened. I mean Marriage Equality ten years ago was not something many people in this Parliament were able to support or prepared to speak out on. Look where we are now. We have the two leaders both supporting Marriage Equality personally. We have the Labor Party having shifted its position. This change has occurred because good people across Australia have continued to campaign.
KELLY: But there are also some good people - and I know your arguments and many people share the argument against the plebiscite. But others who are not of bad will on this issue, who dont want to kill it off, also think a plebiscite is a good idea.
WONG: This phrase killing it off is a very strong phrase and what it assumes, what it implies, is that the only way we should proceed on this issue is the way that Tony Abbott says we should proceed. What it doesnt recognise is the importance of community, the Parliament continuing to pressure the Government, the Prime Minister, to do what he knows is right. The only thing lacking here is Malcolm Turnbull's courage.
KELLY: Even if that means not progressing this issue during this term of Parliament? Is that acceptable?
WONG: I dont accept that it is as binary as that. I dont accept that. I think that what we should have is continued pressure on Mr Turnbull, and in every seat that a so-called moderate holds and across this country, fair-minded Australian who want this will need to put pressure on the Coalition.
KELLY: How will Labor respond if a number of people in the Gay community who, obviously want to have equal rights when it comes to marriage, say to the Labor Party, well, we would rather take our chances in a plebiscite than have nothing?
WONG: Id say a few things. The first is there are a great many people in the LGBTIQ community who have expressed to me personally, and publicly, concerns about a plebiscite. Its all very well for George Brandis and Malcolm Turnbull to airily wave these concerns away, but I think we all understand that this would operate as a platform for hate speech. Were not saying that because were making this up. Weve seen it. Weve already seen at a recent AFL game flyers being distributed which attack the children of same sex couples. Now, thats got nothing to with marriage, but thats the way in which this campaign would be run.
KELLY: There are also some in your party who do brief privately that this would put maximum pressure on Malcolm Turnbull if we block this. The political dividend would be there for Labor.
WONG: This is an issue on which I dont think anybody should be focussed on the political dividend. This is an issue on which we should be looking what is the quickest way, but also the best way, to achieve equality. And the answer to that is for Malcolm Turnbull to show some courage, and if he is not able to then people should be putting the pressure on him, and his so-called moderate colleagues to do so.
KELLY: Just before I leave this issue for this morning, Labor was briefing on Sunday that one of the reasons why Labor is against the plebiscite is that it would probably lose. Do you think the Yes case would lose? What polling advice do you have?
WONG: What I would say is that we know the campaign that would be run would be divisive, and at times hateful. And we know that from the debate around these issues that we have seen to date and we know it would become fuelled, and it will become far worse. And I think the experience of many people in the LGBTI Community is one where they understand what it is like when public figures attack our community for who we are.
KELLY: Do you think you would lose the vote?
WONG: I think the majority of Australians want to see Marriage Equality and the majority of Australians want this dealt with by the Parliament, which is what our system demands. That is what we are paid to do, that is what we are elected to do. We are paid to come to Canberra and to make laws and the fact that Malcolm Turnbull is so frightened of allowing that to happen I think is really a mark against him.
KELLY: The Government is not afraid to make laws when it comes to their legislative agenda. Mathias Cormann has acknowledged the Government will move 25 Bills into the Parliament this week, to be put on the agenda on Wednesday and Thursday. Do you welcome that? Getting on with the second term agenda?
WONG: I do understand that Malcolm and his team feel the need to demonstrate they have got an agenda, particularly when they are all at sea on superannuation and very divided on that. But really, these 25 Bills, things like levies in the agricultural sector and the Statute Amendment Bill, they may well be worthy but Im not sure youd trumpet it as the centre of your agenda. Well look at these Bills as we always do. A great many Bills passed the last Parliament, including the Senate, where obviously there was a lot of focus, with agreement, and well certainly look at these Bills sensibly.
I think the bigger issue of the day is the fact that the Coalition is bitterly divided on superannuation. It says something about them that their biggest focus is the extent of the concessions they can give the highest income earners in Australia.
KELLY: The Coalition might be divided on superannuation, Labor seems to be divided on some elements of the $6.5 billion Omnibus Bill the Government wants you to help pass. One measure in that is the scrapping of the Energy Supplement. 2.2 million pensioners and jobseekers, people on Newstart, would miss out on as much as $7 a week, some of them, if Labor votes to get rid of that. Now, Anthony Albanese says this would hurt some of the most underprivileged people in our community. Will you support that?
WONG: Labor has always had a position where we have sought, particularly in Government, to improve the position of those on lowest incomes. It was a Labor Government which delivered ...
KELLY: ..so cutting the Energy Supplement clearly wouldnt do that
WONG: ..delivered the largest increase in the pension in Australias history. On these issues, obviously we havent seen the legislation yet. Despite that fact we still have the Government trying to make politics out of this. We will look carefully at that legislation and the Labor Caucus will make its decision.
KELLY: Whats your instinct? Are you comfortable with taking this off people on Newstart?
WONG: My position is, as Chris Bowen articulated, our position will reflect the decisions we took prior to the election.
KELLY: So thats a yes?
WONG: We took a range of decisions, certainly for example in the renewable energy context. We took decisions which included the reflection of a policy position which included a cap on pollution.
KELLY: And a cap on ARENA.
WONG: And changes to the way in which our electricity sector is run. So obviously that saving reflected the broader Labor policy position. But look, we havent seen the legislation. I know that the Government wants to distract attention from its superannuation brawl. When we see the legislation, Labor will make its final decision on all aspects of it.
KELLY: Penny Wong, thank you very much for joining us.
WONG: Good to be with you.