PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Scott Morrison has warned against drawing comparisons between the treatment of African Americans by police in the United States and the treatment of Indigenous Australians by police here. The violent arrest of a 16-year-old Indigenous boy by New South Wales Police has sparked protests in Sydney. A Black Lives Matter protest is also scheduled in Melbourne this weekend. The Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews has asked people not to attend because of concerns around the possible spread of coronavirus. Scott Morrison told radio 2GB protesters should exercise social distancing.
PRIME MINISTER SCOTT MORRISON: We're a free country so the idea that we would stop protests, I think is something that would jar with Australians rightly, but at the same time people have got to exercise responsibility. And at the same time, you know, we shouldn't be importing the things that are happening overseas to Australia. I'm not saying we don't have issues in this space that we need to deal with, but the thing is we are dealing with it.
KARVELAS: The Prime Minister has also held a virtual meeting with the Indian Prime Minister this afternoon and Labor Senator Penny Wong, who's also the Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, joins us. Welcome.
SENATOR PENNY WONG, SHADOW MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Good to be with you, Patricia.
KARVELAS: Prime Minister Scott Morrison says we shouldn't draw comparisons between the treatment of Indigenous Australians and what's happening in the United States. Do you see similarities?
WONG: Well, I thought that is exactly the type of tone deaf comment we've come to expect from Scott Morrison; and showing the same lack of human empathy that unfortunately we saw from him during the bushfires. What is happening in America is an example of the divisive and corrosive effects of systemic discrimination and racism and we don't need to worry about importing it here because it is already here and it has been imported if that is the word he wants to use since white arrival. It would be far better if we accepted, and were honest about our history and also our present.
I mean, we have not just the recent example that you described, but we have had 400 Indigenous deaths in custody, over 400 Indigenous deaths in custody since the Royal Commission over 30 years ago. We have had our own high profile examples of police brutality against Indigenous Australians and we shouldn't pretend that that doesn't exist. And yes, I agree with him, we have to work to address it, which is one of the reasons why Labor has said as part of the work in this area - we should adopt justice targets to try and reduce the number of Aboriginal people in custody.
KARVELAS: What do you make of US President Donald Trump's handling of this issue in the United States?
WONG: Well, I'd make a couple of points. First, I think I've already said previously that the escalation of police brutality against civilians and the media as we saw with Channel Seven is not the sort of example we want from the United States; the world wants or Australia as an ally wants.
I've made the point as well that it is important that leaders unite. We don't want leaders, particularly at these times, to divide; we want leaders to bring people together. Those are principles I think that we share as a nation; that we believe that these sorts of crises should be dealt with by leadership that unites. I do think, as Shadow Foreign Minister, that it would be a good thing if the Foreign Minister and the Prime Minister were expressing those values and those principles to President Trump's administration.
KARVELAS: Scott Morrison got a call from Donald Trump in the middle of these protests on Tuesday. Should he have raised those issues that you just mentioned?
WONG: I think as an ally and as a country that shares the values that are espoused by America that we should be expressing our views about what principles matter. The reality is that democracies depend ultimately on there being a sense of unity and togetherness. America is a divided society and we've seen that tragically on display in this last period. We should be expressing the need for unity. That is an Australian value and I think we should express it to President Trump and the administration.
KARVELAS: They are our closest ally. Does it look like a democracy in crisis to you?
WONG: Certainly this is unprecedented what we are seeing around the world with the pandemic and now we are seeing a scale of division and, as I said, brutality on display which is shocking to us. So we hope that the US can come through this and return to the sort of international leadership that I think the world has come to expect from the United States.
KARVELAS: President Trump has floated the idea of expanding the G7 to include India, South Korea and Australia, but exclude China. Do you see risks in that?
WONG: Oh look, it's a good question. I think the non-invitation of China is a reminder of the deteriorating relationship between the US and China. It's not in the world's interest; it's not in Australia's interest for that competition to continue to escalate. We don't want competition to escalate into greater confrontation. We want, ultimately, there to be a coexistence, a sensible coexistence between the United States and China. As a US ally, we would be asserting that.
The reason that Federal Labor in government and in opposition has been so supportive of the G20, has been so strong in our view that that should be the primary multilateral body to steer international responses, such as to the GFC, and should have been more active in response to the pandemic is because of its membership. And its membership not only includes our key strategic ally our closest ally the United States and not only includes India but also includes China and Indonesia. I think that is a very important group. It's an important group for managing competition and trying to engender cooperation, but it's also about protecting the sort of region we want.
KARVELAS: Scott Morrison and the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi held a virtual summit this afternoon and they've now essentially announced that there is a sort of deeper relationship, deeper strategic partnership. What does that actually mean?
WONG: Well you probably have to ask Mr Morrison that. I mean, I think his discovery of India is long overdue and certainly under his leadership we've seen Australia become increasingly reliant on a single trading partner, which is China.
We've seen in the last two years, the Peter Varghese economic strategy report which was about engaging more closely with India gathering dust. So we're pleased that there has been this engagement and we're pleased that the Prime Minister is talking about India. India is a very important partner for Australia and I think it's become increasingly important in a post-pandemic world when we have more contest in our region. Where we have, frankly, less order and more chaos in the world, it's important for us to have deep and trusting partnerships in our region. I think the more we can work with India, that is in Australia's interests.
KARVELAS: Organisers of the annual vigil to mark the Tiananmen Square massacre were denied a permit just days after Beijing introduced these national security laws which cover Hong Kong. Do you see a link and are you concerned by it?
WONG: Well, I understand from the reports that it was as a consequence of health advice and I obviously can't comment on what advice might have been proffered or not, but I think we should just pause for a moment. Tiananmen occurred 31 years ago; it is an event which is still very present in our minds and the minds of the people of Hong Kong and we should always reflect on those events from many years ago. I understand, particularly given what's happening in Hong Kong and the recent passage of national security laws or the presaging of them by the National People's Congress, why the people of Hong Kong would want to reflect on these events of 31 years ago.
KARVELAS: Senator, thanks for joining us on the program.
WONG: Good to speak with you.
Authorised by Paul Erickson, ALP, Canberra.