PATRICIA KARVELAS: The first one hundred days would be a busy time for Bill Shorten and his ministers legalising same sex marriage, the restoration of Sunday penalty rates and the reintroduction of the deficit levy are selected first policy cabs off the rank for Labor.
Though the policies are not new, the timeframe is, a sign perhaps that the Opposition smells blood in the water for the Liberal Party. But, Labor is not immune to problems thrown up by its own members. A meeting of the New South Wales Branch later this month could spell a major policy shift on Palestine.
Penny Wong is the Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs and joins us on RN Drive. Penny Wong welcome.
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good to be with you Patricia.
KARVELAS: Lets start with the big story that has broken this afternoon, the Liberal Opposition in your home state of South Australia will oppose the Labor Governments bank levy. Is this a sign that this policy is bad? That banks facing a double hit, effectively, is the wrong strategy?
WONG: No, I think its a sign of Mr Marshall not having a plan for jobs and growth in South Australia. The reality is difficult decisions have to be made. The State Government looked at this and worked out this is one of the ways we can ensure that we can provide more support for small business, more support to create jobs, in a state which is battling a big structural change. Instead, weve got Steven Marshall out who is backing the banks. Hes going to have to explain to South Australian electors the logic of his position.
KARVELAS: Where is the evidence its going to create all these extra jobs? Some people are saying, the business community are saying, it puts an impost on South Australia and makes us not a great place to invest.
WONG: Lets make two points. Firstly, the scare campaign around jobs. Were talking about a levy that is one third of one per cent of $30 billion in profits the banks made. So, you can, I guess, judge for yourself, the extent to which that is going to result in job losses one third of one per cent of $30 billion in bank profits.
But the levy is intended to support a $200 million future jobs fund and other initiatives including a job accelerator grant. These are all about government programs that support small business to generate more jobs here in South Australia. So, if Steven Marshall doesnt want to do this, he needs to tell people what his jobs plan actually is.
KARVELAS: Were you surprised to learn the only modelling South Australia used was the Federal Governments modelling for its bank levy?
WONG: I havent paid close attention to the modelling discussion but I assume they have looked at the evidence and looked at what they believe is the appropriate decision.
I would say this; its a difficult time for state governments. There is a lot of call on government revenue to support investments in health and education as well as investments in job creation, particularly as the economy is changing. So, its entirely legitimate for governments to look at the evidence and make, sometimes, what are difficult decisions. As long as ones objective is clear, you can explain that to the South Australian people and I think the problem Mr Marshall has got is that he doesnt have a clear objective.
KARVELAS: A long time ago - in fact I used to speak to you quite a bit about it - you did wear a hat about welfare reform and jobs.
WONG: Youve got a good memory Patricia.
KARVELAS: Its so long its disturbing Penny Wong.
WONG: I think youve aged better mate.
KARVELAS: I think weve both aged pretty much, its going along, lets blame the children. But on the policy announced by the government today, which were these internships for welfare recipients - its a scheme the government has announced, its been in the news throughout the day, for welfare recipients to be put into work. ACTU boss Ged Kearney says it is not a good program which pays businesses to give internships to welfare recipients. Does Labor think it is a bad idea?
WONG: We dont support this program. And I have to say, it says something about this government, doesnt it, that in quick succession their political priorities have been the reduction in penalty rates and supporting the reduction in penalty rates for workers who work on public holidays and on Sundays. And then, of course, a program which really gives no guarantee of future employment at its conclusion and is asking people to work for lower than the minimum wage.
I think weve got a situation where you are putting people into the labour market on lower than the minimum wage, theres no guarantee theyre not displacing a job that should be paid at the appropriate level and theres no guarantee of employment at the end. It sounds like a recipe for exploitation to me.
KARVELAS: Lets move onto your portfolio of Foreign Affairs. The New South Wales Labor Conference is at the end of the month. There are reports that the branch is considering a motion to officially recognise Palestinian statehood. Is that a policy that you support?
WONG: The policy I support is a two state solution and thats a position the Labor Party has held for many years. Now, it is quite obvious that there are a range of views inside the Labor Party on this issue. There are very strong views about the approach that should be taken in terms of how we further a two state solution. We did have a lengthy discussion at National Conference on the last occasion about this and the platform was changed to enable consideration of the recognition of Palestine.
My view about this is we should always remember two things; one is, our position is a two state solution and anything we do ought to be judged against that. Is what we are doing likely to further that objective? The second thing to bear in mind is that our capacity to influence this is ultimately limited. Whether or not there is a peaceful resolution between Israel and Palestine is ultimately in the hands of the Israelis and the Palestinians.
KARVELAS: Tanya Plibersek, who is the Acting Opposition Leader, says that effectively this is just the New South Wales Branch. National Conference, obviously decides policy. But this will no doubt come before the National Conference next year?
WONG: And I think Tanya acknowledged that. She is correct. This is a state conference. Weve had a range of foreign policy resolutions at different state conferences around the country on a number of issues, including this one.
Ultimately the National Conference will decide whether or not it wishes to alter the resolution that it carried on the previous occasion. I simply say this, that I think that we should always be judging what we do on the basis of whether or not it furthers the likelihood of a two state solution. And the reason for that is it is only a two state solution which will deliver the peace and security that both Israelis and Palestinians desire.
KARVELAS: So this could become Labor policy if you win the next election?
WONG: Theyre your words. What I have said is we support a two state solution. It will be a matter for National Conference whether it wishes to alter the resolution that was passed on the last occasion.
KARVELAS: And will you be fighting very hard to make sure the position doesnt shift?
WONG: I will be fighting very hard to make sure our position reflects what I think is a good policy.
KARVELAS: Which is the status quo?
WONG: Which is what a future Labor government would do that is likely to best further the chances of a just resolution, a just two state resolution. Bearing in mind, and I would emphasise this, ultimately this is not something that the Labor Party or the Coalition can resolve. This is ultimately a matter the Israelis and Palestinians will have to resolve.
KARVELAS: Is it your view that the status quo is the better position?
WONG: The status quo position is the position that was agreed. Ill take that discussion at National Conference and engage with the different aspects of our party in terms of their views. But my overarching view is we have to hold to the two state solution.
KARVELAS: And would you feel this would be a violation to holding to the two state solution?
WONG: Im not going to engage in that Patricia.
KARVELAS: Why not?
WONG: Because that is your question and I have answered it in the way I think is appropriate which is we should always be looking toward what the ultimate objective is, which is what we are doing furthering a two state solution.
KARVELAS: And, would a change like this not contribute to furthering, to moving towards a two state solution?
WONG: Ive responded already.
KARVELAS: Well, Im not clear. Youre being very careful about your words.
WONG: Well I am being careful because I think this is an issue we ought be very careful and sober in how we approach it. Im very conscious that this will be a discussion at National Conference and I will be approaching it in the way that I have described, and ultimately National Conference will determine whether the resolution that is currently agreed needs any alteration.
KARVELAS: Youve recently returned from Myanmar. The government of Aung San Suu Kyi has been accused of turning a blind eye to attacks on the Rohingya Muslim minority. Theres also reports of more attacks on journalists, or a suppression of journalists. Does that concern you?
WONG: Human rights is always something we should be asserting and advocating. I gave a speech whilst in Myanmar which talked about the importance of human rights of all people and that should be the position generally in relation with that government.
I would also make this point and you do get a real sense of this when you go there, and Id not been to Myanmar before so it was very good to have that opportunity it is a country which is facing pretty enormous challenges. It is a country which has made a transition to democracy, is trying to manage a peace process, and obviously, compared to where it was five or ten years ago, we are in a much better place in terms of the democracy project.
But there is still a lot to do, both in terms of human rights, but also in ensuring that basic levels of education and health services are rolled out. So, we should keep engaging with the government and we should keep ensuing that Australian development assistance is provided because we have an interest in a stable democracy that respects the right of all people being solidified in Myanmar.
KARVELAS: Aung San Suu Kyi says shes no Margaret Thatcher, but not Mother Theresa either. Was the world too quick to turn her into a hero?
WONG: I havent heard that quote. Its an interesting quote. Look, I think shes shown enormous courage, and democracy and the election of people to parliament would not have occurred but for the courage and persistence that she showed, along with many others for many, many years and that must be respected. That doesnt mean we wont put views to the government on the basis of human rights and the importance of ensuring that all people have access to basic services.
KARVELAS: Just a final question, theres reports that this evening that the head of Border Force has been stood down ahead of an investigation. Does Labor have any idea about what is happening in this story?
WONG: Ive only become aware of that because it broke on social media. Ive seen the Government has put a statement out saying they dont wish to comment and I dont propose to add to any of that.
KARVELAS: Penny Wong, thank you so much for your time.
WONG: Good to speak with you.