GLOVER: Penny, good afternoon.
WONG: Good afternoon, good to be with you.
GLOVER: Disappointed?
WONG: Well, actually the vote today was in the House of Representatives; we havent voted yet in the Senate. But of course it is a disappointing result, but not one that was not expected. Once Mr Abbott had made very clear he wasnt going to allow a free vote, the maths of that was that the Bill was unlikely to get up in the Lower House.
GLOVER: Plenty on your side voted against it Kevin Rudd, Wayne Swan, Julia Gillard, Chris Bowen. These are people you work with on the Cabinet table every day. Will you be able to look them in the eye?
WONG: We do have different views on this issue, and people are entitled to their views. There are a lot of people also from the Labor Party who voted for it. Obviously, we had a position at the National Conference that the national platform that is, the Partys policy would be changed to support same sex marriage, or marriage equality. And weve also granted a conscience vote. So Im pleased that weve taken those steps.
My view about this is we will win equality eventually, because its the right thing to do, and because I think community sentiment is with us. Sometimes you dont win social change the first time around; thats the history in Australia. Sometimes youve got to keep trying to achieve that change.
GLOVER: See, for you though, its not just another issue. When somethings so much about your own personal sense of identity it must be difficult when people dont walk the walk with you.
WONG: I think whats more difficult is to hear some of the contributions to this debate, which have been less than respectful, shall we say. And its not just about me, and about my family. The people I think of are some of the young gay and lesbian Australians, people who might still be finding their way, who have to hear some of the messages that some of our Parliamentarians thought were appropriate to put out there and I think its very important to say to them youre OK.
GLOVER: Youre talking about Cory Bernardi. How do you think that mentioning of bestiality in the same breath, in a sense, as gay marriage, would be heard by some of those young Australians?
WONG: I hope they hear that that is wrong, and I hope they hear the many other people who are saying to them youre OK as you are, and youve got nothing to be ashamed of.
GLOVER: In that sense, Tony Abbott spoke quite eloquently today, didnt he? He said about Cory Bernardi that, even though the Liberal Party wasnt going to walk the walk on gay marriage, it was committed to respect for gay people.
WONG: And I welcome the fact that we have a very clear position that says these sorts of remarks are not acceptable in todays society. And theyre not acceptable because they really are attacking, or being critical, and very hurtful, about some groups of Australians.
GLOVER: I suppose he was arguing that it was a slippery slope argument, wasnt it?
WONG: Youd have to ask Cory Bernardi what he was arguing.
GLOVER: Hmm. What did you tell the House today? Sorry, the Senate.
WONG: Yes, the other chamber (laughs). People often forget about us. I tried to go through the arguments against marriage, and I made the point that I support the institution, I believe it is important, but I dont believe that its value is increased by walling it off to other Australians. And I also spoke about why I think this will not end here, because those of us who are arguing for equality are arguing for the thing that is most important in our lives, that is, the people we love most in the world.
So, were not going to be deterred, and what Ive seen since this vote has been on the horizon is momentum actually only going one way. So whilst we didnt win today, we have achieved a lot. We have seen people come over to this side of the debate; people who previously have said no I dont support marriage equality voting today for marriage equality and I welcome that. My view about this is that community sentiment is going one way, and the community sentiment is tending towards equality.
GLOVER: Did you talk about your own experiences, of what a committed relationship can mean?
WONG: What I spoke about was that I think the markers of a good relationship are things such as respect, commitment and love. And thats what we should be looking at, not the gender of the partners. I did talk about my regret at some of what has been said, and what that means for families like mine. And, as I said, I think the reason we will eventually achieve this is not only that were arguing for the right principle, but were also arguing for the people we care about and so were not going to be deterred.
GLOVER: You talked about young people. I wonder if a grown-up, powerful woman like you, whether, when you hear someone like Bernardi, it still has a little sting in the back of the neck, or something?
WONG: Ive been in Parliament now ten years, and Ive heard a lot of things said, and I dont respond to all of them because I just dont think theyre worthy of a response.
GLOVER: Penny Wong, thanks for your time this afternoon.
WONG: Good to speak with you.
ENDS