ANDREW GEOGHEGAN : We are joined by Labor Senator for South Australia, Penny Wong. Penny Wong, good morning to you.
PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good morning, good morning to you both.
GEOGHEGAN: Lets start with news this past week, the resignation of PUP Senator Glenn Lazarus. Now yet another independent in the house, how is this going to affect the way you do business in the Senate?
WONG: Well Glenn has obviously made a difficult decision, thats up to him. In terms of how we do business it really isnt going to change things much. I mean we will just have to make a couple more phone calls and have a few more meetings. But we have tried to take the approach in this Senate where we obviously dont have the majority, the Government has the single largest block of votes, we have made the effort to negotiate respectfully with all crossbenchers. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree. But obviously the key issue we are concerned about in this coming fortnight is to prevent the Governments higher education legislation getting through. Australians dont want degrees that are $100,000. Australians dont want higher education that is beyond the reach of too many Australians and I hope all crossbench senators will join with us in defeating that legislation.
GEOGHEGAN: And do you feel as though the Palmer United Party is now a spent force?
WONG: Thats a matter for commentators. Ive got a job to do as Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and that is to make sure we get the votes on the things we think are important. Sometimes we do, sometimes we dont. But it is very important, I think, for the future of the country that we dont see this radical legislation on higher education pass. It is pretty extraordinary too, isnt it, that Christopher Pyne is holding the Senate and the nation to ransom by refusing to fund the science and research collaboration effort, refusing to release funds for that beyond the end of this financial year if the bill doesnt pass. It really does say something about this Governments bullying approach to public policy.
MIRIAM COROWA: Senator Wong though if universities are looking at options such as fee deregulation in order to remain sustainable, how can the Parliament stand in in the way of legislation that will open this up?
WONG: Well this is the problem with the way this Government negotiates, its my way or the highway, or their way or the highway, isnt it? They are not prepared to negotiate sensible options, they are not prepared to look at different ways of doing things, what they are prepared to do is to continue to threaten scientific research in this country and the Senate into passing legislation which I think not only is unfair but they have no mandate for. Lets not forget Christopher Pyne before the last election told Australians there would be no change to the funding arrangements for universities, no change to student fees. Clearly that wasnt true.
GEOGHEGAN: Senator Wong if we can just change tack to some other news this week on Indigenous affairs and in particular the sustainability of remote communities. Of course we have heard what is happening in Western Australia and the Prime Ministers remarks which many took as offence. Now this morning we have had Indigenous leader Patrick Dodson make some comments. He is warning that the fate of the referendum on recognition of the first Australians hangs in the balance. He has tied this to this issue of remote community funding saying he fears that Indigenous people would fail to see the value in that referendum given what else is going on. Do you feel as though there needs to be a conversation about this, certainly among Indigenous leaders and politicians?
WONG: There needs to be a conversation but really what Pat Dodsons comments remind us all of is how deeply disrespectful and ignorant the Prime Minister Mr Abbotts comments were. Apart from the fact that I think any Australian, you or I, would probably be pretty grumpy if the Prime Minister told us we had to get off our land, apart from that point the Prime Ministers comments really display an ignorance about the relationship of Indigenous people to country. I think Pat Dodson is right. You cant have a sensible and respectful discussion about recognition, you cant progress reconciliation if you are telling people that you are cutting funding to their communities, which this Government is doing, if you are cutting funding to legal aid services with direct effects on Aboriginal people, which this Government is doing, and if you are telling them they have to move off their land. How can you have a sensible discussion about reconciliation and recognition? And it is why you see not only Pat Dodson, the father of reconciliation, making these points but other Indigenous leaders like Noel Pearson and Mr Abbotts own Indigenous advisor Warren Mundine making comments which are negative about what the Prime Minister has said.
COROWA: Given there has been criticism from those who are considered to be Indigenous leaders who have been in conversation with the Prime Minister there has been some suggestion that those comments were actually a deliberate attempt by Prime Minister Abbott to inflame the situation and to perhaps deflect from other issues that he would rather have people not focusing on.
WONG: If that were to be the case that would be unethical and cynical and not becoming of anybody who led this country. All I can tell you is this. I cant see into the Prime Ministers heart but I can tell you I was in the Northern Territory during the week that that comment was made and the reaction of the Indigenous people and the communities to which I went was one of bewilderment that a Prime Minister would say such things about them and about their community.
GEOGHEGAN: Do you feel as though some of these communities do need to be restructured or at least some may indeed be unsustainable?
WONG: I can tell you I went to an Indigenous community just out of Darwin. A lot of good things were happening in that particular community. Of course there are real policy challenges when it comes to our Indigenous people. But they are not going to be resolved by people making these sorts of comments and telling them to get off their land. Do we really think that kind of high handedness is how we should deal with some of the difficult social and economic challenges that so many of our first peoples face.
GEOGHEGAN: Could we just move onto another issue. Now I know it is close to your heart, being a senator from South Australia, this is over the federal car industry and in particular the Automotive Transformation Scheme. The Government made an announcement this past week that it was in fact not going to cut that. There was a bit of confusion as to whether it was $900 million or $500 million. Is that money still necessary given there is a transition underway and the car industry is effectively dead in this country?
WONG: The car industry is leaving this country, the manufacturing component of the auto sector, because this Government ensured that happened. Lets remember they went to the election with a cut to the industry scheme, they made sure they put it in place. They also had the Treasurer on the floor of the Parliament goading Holden to leave. It was really quite an extraordinary display from this Government. Now the decision to which you refer is a welcome back down but really far too late. And the only reason it was done was because the Prime Minister was worried about his own job, not the jobs of workers in the car sector. The reality is we have known for some time that the cuts to that scheme would affect potentially an earlier closure of the manufacturers and certainly would affect the component sector.
GEOGHEGAN: Just finally Senator, Paul Grimes, the Agriculture Department secretary was sacked this past week. Now this is a peculiar case it goes to a controversy around Barnaby Joyce, the agriculture minister, and the attempt to correct an incorrect answer he gave in Hansard. Are you pursuing this in Parliament?
WONG: I think this is absolutely appalling, the sacking of a respected public servant who appears to have been sacked because he didnt want to join in the cover-up that his minister was engaging in in terms of the changes to what was said in Parliament. What this demonstrates yet again is this Government is prepared to go after anybody and any measure of accountability that they see as standing in its way. We have seen that when it comes to Professor Triggs, we have seen that in their trashing of any of the accountability mechanisms that they regard as being inconvenient. And now we have a senior public servant who apparently has been sacked because he wouldnt join in a cover-up. Well I think it is outrageous and I think Australians look very unkindly on this sort of behaviour and I certainly think this is a matter the Parliament should be pursuing.
GEOGHEGAN: Senator Penny Wong thanks for your time.
WONG: Good to be with you.