DOLE: Senator, good morning, and welcome to Weekend Breakfast.
WONG: Good morning, Nick. Good to be with you.
DOLE: Obviously, things are moving very quickly in Boston, so we will try and get through what we can. Now, no deal on Gonski yesterday. Was this a failure from the Prime Minister, given shes staked her prime ministership on this?
WONG: Absolutely not. What the Prime Minister is doing is whats right for the country and at the moment, Nick, weve got too many Australian children who dont get the opportunity to achieve their full potential. Weve got to change that. And we also know that the country risks being left behind if we dont lift the competitiveness and the capacity of our education system. Thats what these reforms are about. In terms of no Premier being in a position as yet to sign up, I would make the point: it took longer than a week to get Medicare, it took more than a week to get superannuation, it took more than a week to reform the economy in the Hawke and Keating Governments. This is a big Labor reform, like those reforms, and we will continue to campaign for it.
DOLE: The Governments got $9.5 billion on the table over six years. We know about your changes in superannuation and your tertiary education cuts, but will there be further cuts to offset the cost of Gonski?
WONG: We will have to make responsible savings decisions in order to make the right spending decisions, the right investments for the future. But what you wont get from this Government is a cutting to the bone that you would see from an Abbott Government. And weve seen just recently, in fact, reports that Coalition sources have confirmed that an Abbott Government would cut Indigenous Affairs, including indigenous education. I mean, what a contrast between the two parties. We want to invest in education, and they want to cut indigenous education programs and health programs.
DOLE: I know youre not going to say what is going to be cut in the Budget, but can you give us an idea of how much more you need to find to fund these reforms?
WONG: I think that is a Budget question, and youll have to wait for Budget night. But we will continue to make responsible savings decision, just as we have to date. We are putting the Budget together in an environment where the government is getting less tax less money in terms of the federal Budget. Weve seen about $20 billion taken off the 2012-13 Budget numbers up till the mid-year review last year. And, since then, weve also seen although the economy is growing tax to government, a bit like profits to businesses, significantly below what we anticipated. Now, that makes the Budget pretty challenging, but you have to find the space for the right spending decisions, the right investments, whether its DisabilityCare or lifting all our schools, all our classrooms, and resourcing all our children through the National Plan for School Improvement.
DOLE: A lot of your spending does rely on some revenue from some very volatile sources. We saw the European carbon price crash more than 40 per cent this week, and in 2015, our market is going to be tied to that market. That could have real implications for revenue, wont it?
WONG: Can I remind you of a couple of things. First, in terms of the carbon price, youre right, we intend to move to a floating price a market mechanism in 2015-16. We will reflect on those forecasts, as our other forecasts, in our Budget. I think it is important, though, to recall that most Australian businesses with a large carbon exposure are not paying the full carbon price. The most polluting industries, for example, their carbon liability is about $1.30 a tonne because of the free permits and assistance the Governments put in place. So, I think its important in this debate to recognise that.
DOLE: And that assistance is locked in, though. Youll be relying on a carbon price that youve currently budgeted at being around $29 a tonne at the moment its around $3. Now, it can move around a lot but if its anywhere near that, youll have a huge hole in revenue.
WONG: Well, a couple of points. Youre right, the European carbon price is currently lower than it previously was, and thats a result of whats happening in the European economy and policy decisions theyve made. I would make the point that the areas of assistance are not about caps, theyre about things like free permits, so obviously a change in the carbon price doesnt affect the value of those. We will, as I said earlier, ensure we review that carbon price forecast, along with all our budget forecasts, in the Budget.
DOLE: In linking our scheme with Europe, though, havent we unnecessarily exposed Australia to the volatility of the European economy?
WONG: I believe in market mechanisms to achieve the most efficient outcomes and Governments have a role in establishing markets properly. So, my view is that its a good thing to move to a market price. Having said that, obviously, that does mean the market price reflects different economic circumstances. But it is a much more efficient policy for Australia to be linked internationally than to try and do everything domestically. That is why Tony Abbotts carbon policy will in fact cost the Australian economy more will cost business more and cost taxpayers more for the same environmental outcome.
DOLE: Senator, were nearly out of time, but just finally, obviously New Zealand passed gay marriage laws this week. Do you think the Prime Minister is going to be on the wrong side of history, given that shes still opposing gay marriage?
WONG: Look, people have their personal views and theyre entitled to them. I would remind you that the Prime Minister granted a conscience vote unlike Tony Abbott when the last Bill went before the Parliament. And, unlike the Coalition, the Labor Party has marriage equality in our Party platform. My view about this is that marriage equality ... our time will come. Equality is a very simple concept its a very simple proposition. That we treat all relationships equally. And I think increasingly Australians understand theres nothing to fear from equality.
DOLE: Do you have any hope of changing the Prime Ministers mind?
WONG: Oh, as I said, people have their personal views. Im more interested in continuing to press for reform in the years ahead as I have done to date and as many people from the Labor Party have done and well keep working on it.
DOLE: Penny Wong, due to the situation in Boston, we will have to leave it there, but thank you very much for your time this morning.
WONG: Good to speak with you.
ENDS