UHLMANN: Penny Wong is the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, good morning.
WONG: Good morning, good to be with you Chris.
UHLMANN: Penny Wong, you were the Climate Change Minister, you fought the first battle on the carbon price, how does it feel now that it looks likely to be scrapped?
WONG: The consistent theme over the last five years has been Tony Abbotts destructive approach to politics when it comes to climate. He doesnt want a serious and credible response. Lets recall he became leader of the Liberal Party by tearing down Malcolm Turnbull after Mr Turnbull had come to an agreement with the Labor Party, a bipartisan agreement, to tackle climate change. Wouldnt the nation be in a different place if Mr Turnbull had managed to hold off Tony Abbotts attack on him for the leadership?
UHLMANN: And wouldnt it be a different place too if the Labor Party had fought more strongly on occasions to try and keep the carbon tax. In fact you went to the last election saying, not that you were going to terminate it but that you had terminated it.
WONG: To put in place an emissions trading scheme. Lets remember we did have to go, as Bill Shorten said yesterday, for the second best option when we were confronted with a very different Parliament. But we have been very clear. We need as a nation a serious and credible response to climate change. That is where the world is moving and if you look at conservative governments and conservative politicians around the world, even they are saying we need to respond to climate change. Tony Abbotts out on his own on this.
UHLMANN: Sure but how do you think the ordinary voter interprets the word terminate? Do you think they hear the rest of the sentence and put in place an emissions trading system?
WONG: How do you think a normal voter might hear phrases like a wrecking ball through the economy which was one of the exaggerated slogans that Tony Abbott has been running around the country.
This is a bloke who said Whyalla would be wiped off the map. If we want to talk about words in politics, I think Tony Abbott has demonstrated that you can certainly go over the top when you run a scare campaign.
UHLMANN: So will you campaign on reintroducing a carbon price at the next election?
WONG: Well make our policy clear prior to the next election. But I think Bill Shorten laid out very clearly yesterday in the House of Representatives, in a very strong speech, he laid out the values that Labor stands for when it comes to climate.
It isnt a sensible thing for Australians to say, for all of us to say, well just handball this problem to the next generation of Australians. We need a serious response, a credible response. We support an emissions trading scheme, that is our position.
UHLMANN: And so you will be campaigning on bringing in an emissions trading scheme even if there isnt one or the structure for one?
WONG: As I said, we will be consistent in our policy for an emissions trading scheme. But letsremember that at the next election it might be a couple of years away, although Tony Abbott has previously threatened a double dissolution on a number of occasions if the Senate doesnt do what he wants, doesnt do his bidding but the next election will also be about which party supports Medicare, which party supports resourcing all our schools properly or only some, which party believes universities shouldnt be out of the reach of many, many Australians, which party will support our hospitals or which party will close hospital beds. These are all the things, including climate that will be at play in the next election.
UHLMANN: OK, but to the immediate issue of climate, what do you make of the fact that the left-leaning Australia Institute is advising Clive Palmer now? They would make the case that they are keeping in place some of the architecture that goes with it like renewable energy and those sorts of things, but in the end if that organisation helps to end a carbon price in Australia what will its legacy be?
WONG: I might leave that to commentators such as yourself. I think all of us in this debate, I think Australians over the last five years would look at the political shenanigans in Canberra around carbon, including the chaos and shambles of last week which were pretty extraordinary, and there are probably many occasions on which people might say we should have done this differently or we should have done that differently.
UHLMANN: Thats a fair criticism isnt it? There are things you would have done differently?
WONG: With the benefit of hindsight, theres very few things in life that
UHLMANN: If youd taken your foot off Malcolm Turnbulls throat in 2009 you may well have gotten bipartisan support for this?
WONG: I did get bipartisan support. People forget that, I actually, on negotiating on behalf of the Government, with Kevin Rudds support, got a deal with Malcolm Turnbull.
UHLMANN: And every day in the Lower House Kevin Rudd used the carbon price as an axe against Malcolm Turnbull.
WONG: The fault lies at the feet of Tony Abbott. This is a man who has staked his entire leadership, his great political legacy on a false scare campaign. Now thats hardly a great legacy to leave to your children.
UHLMANN: What do you think will happen today? Do you think this price will go? Too hard to tell?
WONG: After the chaos and shambles of the last week which I have to say was the most chaotic Senate Ive seen. I havent been here as long as John Faulkner who I think ran in your package, hes been here what a quarter of a century or something like that. Ive been here, twelve years and it was certainly the worst chamber management Ive ever seen and a Government guillotining its own bill and then filibustering it that is trying to talk out to the guillotine, a pretty extraordinary scene. Who would know.
The Government has moved almost every day and in fact twice yesterday changes to its own agenda. So its changed what it wants debated in the Senate regularly and in fact even twice yesterday when this is a Government that cant manage the chamber.
UHLMANN: What about new crossbenchers as well? Is Clive Palmer bullying the Senate clerks and should there be a penalty for that?
WONG: I wasnt there obviously for that discussion so Ill simply say this in my experience people whove held the position of clerk including Ms Laing, the current incumbent have always served the Senate with integrity, impartiality and professionalism and they do the country great service for the work they do.
UHLMANN: Now, to the Governments changes to financial laws does Labor have the numbers to disallow those regulations?
WONG: We have put our case very strongly to the crossbench. I think all you need to know about this, Chris, is that National Seniors, Choice and all other consumer advocates are all opposing the Governments position.
Now that probably tells you something about in whos interest the Government is acting. Theyre not acting in the interests of consumers and thats why consumer groups across the board are opposed to the Governments retrograde changes.
UHLMANN: Now, a same-sex marriage bill is being introduced to the Senate by new Senator David Leyonhjelm, do you believe Australia is edging closer to change?
WONG: I do, I make the point that our Deputy Leader, Tanya Plibersek made clear last year that she would introduce a bill into the lower house for marriage equality when the Prime Minister grants a conscience vote.
We dont want this to fail again, we want a debate which has the capacity of a bill passing and marriage equality being achieved but to get that weve got to have Tony Abbott being prepared to allow his party to vote with their conscience.
UHLMANN: Finally, briefly, the Lodge is being renovated at the moment, so why is Labor so distressed about $51,000 being spent fixing up the dining room in the Prime Ministers Parliament House office?
WONG: Well, I read that report today and I suppose what Id say is this the age of entitlement isnt over for some.
UHLMANN: But surely the Prime Minister needs somewhere to take people to dinner he cant do it in the digs hes got in Canberra at the moment?
WONG: I think some of the changes were to the Prime Ministers office which if I recall from when we were in Government, were perfectly adequate but its up to the Prime Minister to explain why when the age of entitlement is over hes spending money on curtains and upholstery.
UHLMANN: Penny Wong, thank you.
WONG: Good to speak with you.
ENDS