GREG JENNETT: Senator, welcome.
SENATOR PENNY WONG: Good to be with you.
JENNETT: Thank you. By whose standards are you running this pursuit? Is it the standard of the last parliament that says the deeds of Craig Thomson and of Julia Gillard, before they entered parliament, are standards that they need to be held to, as parliamentarians?
WONG: The standards Im seeking to uphold, and I shouldnt have to do it, are the Prime Ministers standards. He should uphold Ministerial standards which require, amongst other things, the highest standards of personal integrity and also accountability to the parliament. Because lets remember what Labor sought today.
We sought, we asked, that Senator Sinodinos come to the chamber and give us a statement outlining his dealings in relation to Australian Water Holdings. Thats what we sought. And you wouldve thought he wouldve come in. But instead we saw three hours of cover up, three hours of cover up by this government. The carbon bills wouldve been debated and probably brought to a vote this morning, but they were more interested in preventing Senator Sinodinos from attending the chamber to provide a statement than in voting on their own carbon legislation.
JENNETT: Why do you cite the ministerial code though, in your contribution to that debate, when these instances occurred before he entered the parliament?
WONG: Id make a couple of points. The first is he made a statement to the Senate, as a backbencher, which he subsequently reaffirmed as a Minister. He said, I stand by my statement. Hes also the minister whos responsible for, amongst other things, business law and practice, corporate governance. Duties of directors are things directly within his purview. What we say is: these are the things that ICAC has said, this is your statement, there are certainly omissions, possible inconsistencies, matters which we think require explanation. And were inviting him to do that.
JENNETT: In the Thomson case it was argued by Labor that the parliament is not a court, and that courts and judicial processes should be left to run their own course. Are you treating this pursuit today as a pseudo court trial?
WONG: Not at all, because Im not making any assertions about whether hes done anything wrong. Im saying there are questions which I think the public have a right to have answered. Can I give you an example? To the Senate, Senator Sinodinos has said, I played no role in the awarding of the contract. This is the contract to Australian Water Holdings. What ICAC has found is that he wrote a letter about this issue, including to ccd to the Premier, and he attended a meeting about this issue. Now, I think most people would say, well how is it you say you played no role if you clearly were lobbying for it as Chair of the company.
JENNETT: Do you class that as an allegation, the example youve just cited. And, if not, what are the actual allegations that you think need to be responded to?
WONG: Thats not an allegation. Those are the facts ICAC has had evidence about. There was evidence yesterday that the meeting occurred. I dont know who else attended the meeting, I dont know all the details of it. But the meeting occurred that Senator Sinodinos was a participant in and, also, we have a letter thats been tabled in the public arena where he writes lobbying about these issues.
And maybe he can say, I can square up the fact that I lobbied and attended a meeting with my assertion that I played no role. But I think the public, from a Minister of the crown, are entitled to an explanation. And so far, all weve seen is a government doing everything they can to prevent him giving that explanation.
JENNETT: Whats the urgency here though? Because I think the ICAC is indicating that its hearing process should be wrapped up in three to four weeks. Cant Senator Sinodinos make his statement there, as a witness, and then deal with the parliament afterwards?
WONG: I think the issue here is he is a Minister in the parliament. But more importantly, hes also refusing to answer questions in the parliament. We do have a system of Ministerial accountability, as you know, and Ministers have to turn up to the Chamber and be asked questions.
Weve gone down this path today, after yesterday Senator Sinodinos and the government refusing to answer questions about these issues, taking points of order and seeking not to respond. Now I think Australians are entitled to a response. It may be that he has a perfectly legitimate explanation for some of the things that we know for example the donations point. I think he is an office bearer of both the Liberal party as well as a Director or Chair of the Australian Water Holdings, as moneys being funnelled through from Sydney Water to the Liberal Party. Now, I think people are entitled to know, did he know about that?
JENNETT: Well the senate is in a stand-off right now. Theres been all this argy bargy through the morning, and yet you cant force Senator Sinodinos to do anything, to front in that Chamber and make a statement. So what happens next? Can you up the ante into a censure motion?
WONG: I think the Prime Minister should act. This is ultimately a matter for him. He should require him to attend the chamber. It is extraordinary that weve had three hours of a government that says it wants to repeal the carbon tax not wanting to debate that bill, which would likely have come to a vote this morning, because they are so concerned about the assistant treasurer coming in and explaining whats occurred.
JENNETT: And if there are so many accountability issues at stake here, why isnt Labors leadership team taking it to the next level and actually demanding that he step aside. Because thats not a call that youve made so far.
WONG: You asked me earlier, do you want to be judge and jury, I think was the phrase you used, and I think its reasonable to say, just as we said in relation to Minister Nash, another Minister of the Abbott Government who I think has not demonstrated proper accountability to the parliament.
Were saying our first job is to make sure we prosecute the issue of Ministerial accountability. Thats what weve done, we havent made a judgement about the content, weve said these are the issues you should come to the Chamber to explain. Even that level, which I think is the minimum level of ministerial accountability, has been resisted strenuously by the government.
JENNETT: Alright, Penny Wong, well let you get back to the Chamber. More on this to come, Im sure.
WONG: Good to be with you.
ENDS
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