BELLING: Joining us now once again for our regular debate is the minister who was the target of the catty remark, Finance Minister Penny Wong, and shadow immigration minister Scott Morrison. Thanks once again for joining us this morning.
WONG: Good morning.
BELLING: As I started to say, dont you think its a sad reflection of the state of Australian politics if were talking about catty remarks, rather than the really big issues: climate change, immigration, and the economy?
WONG: Well it possibly wasnt politics finest hour. So I think it is time that we did start talking about things like climate change, and Im happy to talk about the economy. On this issue, Ive said everything I was going to say about it actually in the room. I put my view pretty clearly, and Senator Bushby was decent enough to apologise. And Ive accepted the apology, and Im happy to move on now.
BELLING: Scott?
MORRISON: Well, I think Penny summarised it well. I think Penny handled the matter appropriately, and Senator Bushby apologised, and there are much bigger issues.
BELLING: And talking about big issues, the key point seems to be today growing concern over the Federal Governments so-called Malaysian solution. Penny, if I can put this to you first. Theres real growing concern theres even documents obtained by ABC television that the Malaysian Government wants to be free from the United Nations High Commission for Refugees rules for human rights, even pushing for unaccompanied children to be sent to Malaysia. Thats a big issue, with trying to get rid of human rights.
WONG: Lets look at this from this perspective: theres a lot of noise around this issue, theres a lot of debate. But fundamentally we know a number of things. We know we need to change the business model; we have to destroy the business model of the people smugglers. We have an announcement between the two Prime Ministers, the Prime Minister of Australia and the Prime Minister of Malaysia which says, amongst other things, that Malaysia will respect the human rights of asylum seekers.
We are working through those discussions, and the detail of the implementation of that, with the Malaysians. So what Id say to people is, I understand there are things flying around, various allegations, judge us by the agreement that is finalised. That will be public, that will be made clear. And thats really what we should focus on, rather than people jumping at a whole range of assertions which are made in the lead-up to that.
BELLING: Scott, how much concern is that for you in regards to your Opposition portfolio? Because human rights, this is a really key issue that is now even causing concern with the Greens theyre aligning with the Coalition over this issue.
MORRISON: Well weve had a consistent view on this matter, ever since this agreement was announced over about a month ago. But Penny makes the point that the people smugglers model needs to be broken, now we agree with that. The people smugglers model is based on the Governments failed policies. The Government has finally acknowledged that its their policies that are the problem and theyre seeking to change.
But the way theyre seeking to change it, as last nights reports show, raises serious questions in terms of human rights, in terms of this arrangement. We can give the sorts of guarantees the Australian people want with respect to Nauru and the Pacific Solution. We know where theyll be every single hour of every single day, until theyre either returned home or resettled in another country. We know theyll go to school, and we know they wont be caned, and the Government cannot give those assurances. And what we saw last night, I think, is evidence of the fact that the Prime Minister is engaging in double-speak on this issue, just like she did on East Timor. Itll all be fine, itll all turn out , were still talking, and we know what happened with East Timor, and it seems the Malaysia deal may well be on the same track.
BELLING: Senator Wong, is that causing you concern? Youre saying we shouldnt jump to conclusions until the situation the plan and the agreement is finalised. But surely if these initial concerns are popping up, this would raise concern with you. Because this is a key issue, even sending unaccompanied children is just unacceptable.
WONG: Can I talk about that actually because I think that demonstrates the real difficulty with this policy area. You talk about unaccompanied children. No one wants to see unaccompanied children in situations of risk. And it is really sad around this world, amongst the 43 million displaced people, we see children. But we also dont want children getting on the boats. And remember thats what were trying to do here. Were trying to get an agreement in place that stops people, including kids, getting on the boats. And thats what were working through; were very focused on that.
BELLING: Scott, lets quickly move onto the other big issue of this week which is climate change. Now we saw yesterday Bob Hawke some may say thats back to the future and pretty desperate measures to bring an old prime minister back to the fold to defend Julia Gillard.
MORRISON: I agree.
WONG: (laughs) It wouldnt be surprising.
BELLING: What are you thoughts about that?
MORRISON: It seems they want everybody to argue their case except themselves on this issue. Theyre pulling out everybody to give their opinion. But the point Tony has made very clearly is this everyone should get their say on this issue. Not just former prime ministers, just not those in the artistic community, everyone should get their say on this issue. And that means it should go to an election. It should go to an election, and this position of the Governments carbon tax they promised would not be in place under the Government that Julia Gillard leads, that should now be put to the people. That seems only fair. And its a matter of political integrity for the Government.
BELLING: Senator Wong, on that point, wouldnt Julia Gillard be better doing that in regards, in saying Im so passionate about climate change, Im so passionate about the proposed carbon tax, that I will put it to the Australian people?
WONG: This is the Parliament that people voted for and I dont think anybody who lived through the last Parliament would suggest that there was any secret about Labor wanting to price carbon. I spent a couple of years of my life working very hard to get that through the Parliament.
But can I just respond to a couple of things Scott said. First, what weve seen this week is religious leaders, scientists, economists including even the former leader of the Liberal Party, John Hewson, coming out and saying we want a price on carbon. So I think Tony Abbott is looking increasingly isolated with his negativity on this issue.
The other point Id make is this. We see Barnaby Joyce making clear in the press that their policy is just a gesture. Its just a gesture. This is the extraordinary thing about Mr Abbotts position, about Tony Abbotts position. He says on the one hand, I believe in climate change, I believe its real, weve got to do something about it. And youve got senior Coalition frontbenchers being very clear about what the real policy is. And that is, its just a gesture, a gesture that you and every other taxpayer in Australia will pay for.
MORRISON: We can sort all this out Penny. We can go to an election and everyone can have their say, not just the scientists and the church, and others. Everyone can have their say if we go to an election. You can put it forward -
WONG: You can argue it now. You can tell me whether its a gesture or not.
MORRISON: No were totally committed to
WONG: Is it a gesture?
MORRISON: No.
WONG: Then why did Barnaby say it was a gesture?
MORRISON: We have a serious plan which will meet the targets that the Government set out.
WONG: Thats not what Barnaby said.
MORRISON: So this is an argument on whether we should have a carbon tax, or whether we should have a direct action plan. Now, were confident to take that position to the Australian people and I dont think Tonys isolated with the majority of Australians who support our view on this. So were happy to side with the majority of Australians. And so lets go to an election, and off we go and well find out who has the support of the Australian people.
WONG: But Scott, you havent answered the question.
MORRISON: I did actually.
WONG: Your senior frontbencher, Barnaby Joyce, whose views on climate change are pretty clear he doesnt believe its real says your policy that costs billions of dollars of taxpayers money is nothing more than a gesture.
MORRISON: It was costed by Treasury as you know at the last election, it was costed at $10 billion over ten years.
WONG: You still havent answered me. If you really believed your policy would work, why would senior members of your shadow cabinet keep saying this is a gesture?
MORRISON: What Barnaby said, because I watched the same interview, he said these measures are worthwhile to meet a whole range of objectives. Were committed to our policy, are you committed to yours because if you are lets go to an election and lets sort it out.
WONG: I dont think you have answered the question.
BELLING: Weve run out of time again. Wishing you both a lovely weekend after a very, very busy week in politics.
WONG: Thanks, nice to see you again. It certainly has been.
MORRISON: Absolutely, thanks.
ENDS

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