BELLING: Joining us now for our regular Friday political debate are Finance Minister Penny Wong in our Melbourne studio, good morning Minister.
WONG: Good morning Natarsha.
BELLING: And shadow immigration minister Scott Morrison in Sydney. Thank you to both of you.
MORRISON: Hi.
BELLING: First to you, Senator Wong, now how long can the Government stand by Mr Thomson? Some sceptics may say if hes actually forced out of Parliament its more about the fact that Labor could actually lose Government.
WONG: Mr Thomson is a valued member of our caucus. There is an investigation by Fair Work Australia, thats on the public record, and we should let that investigation proceed. Allegations have been made, and allegations have been denied, but the reality is I dont think even the Opposition is calling for Mr Thomsons resignation.
BELLING: Mr Morrison, are you calling for his resignation considering there are allegations he did use a union credit card to pay for these services?
MORRISON: Well I think the question here is really for the Prime Minister. I mean the Prime Minister has stood in the Parliament and says she has complete confidence, she has absolutely welded herself to Mr Thomson. And the Coalition has been asking her, well how has she formed this view? What questions has she asked, when did she ask them, when did she know, and when did she approve of the payment made to Mr Thomson by the ALP. I mean these are questions that I think the public are asking, were asking, the Prime Ministers answering none of them, and I think its a real issue of judgment. Shes made this call about Mr Thomson, I think she needs to satisfy Australians how shes made that call.
BELLING: But should he resign, are you calling for him to resign?
MORRISON: There are many questions out there at the moment. Hes answering none, the Prime Ministers answering none, the shutters have gone up, and I think people are sitting back and wondering about the transparency of this Government.
BELLING: So youre not calling for him to resign at this stage.
MORRISON: Well I think at this stage there are just serious, serious questions and the Labor Party has put up the shutters. Now I think its important if the Prime Ministers going to stand there and say I have complete confidence in this person, that she should be able to justify why she has that view. And she hasnt responded to any question that could lead us to forming the same conclusion.
BELLING: Senator Wong, on to the other big issues this week. We saw that massive anti-carbon tax rally in Canberra. Weve also seen the controversy continue over the Malaysia solution. With the situation with that at the moment, if the High Court does strike down your Malaysia solution, where are you going to stand on this very controversial issue?
WONG: No one should doubt our resolve to implement this policy and to break the people smugglers model. We think thats the right thing to do. Obviously the matter is before the High Court, as have been previous matters under the Howard Government when they were in Government too. Obviously the Court will make its decision, but no one should doubt our resolve.
I do want to make a comment about the carbon rally, Natarsha, that you mentioned at the beginning of your question. Obviously this is a reform that is difficult and tough, and there are people who oppose it, particularly Tony Abbott. I would say though, Ive seen today that Mr Abbott has, on one of his blogs, had a go at the Prime Minister for not attending the rally. That really is a cheap shot. He would well know that the Prime Minister was attending a funeral on that day, and its a pity that hes chosen to take such a cheap shot thats really not worthy of him.
BELLING: Senator Wong, just speaking about the carbon tax, I know Ive asked you this question before. If the Prime Minister and the Gillard Government is so passionate that they believe they are on the right track with the carbon tax, why not put it to the people? Call an election over it?
WONG: Natarsha, we have spoken about this. We went to the last election saying we wanted to price carbon. We believed that that was the best way to reach the emissions reductions target that Tony Abbotts also signed up to. Remember Scott and Tony and all the Opposition also want to reduce emissions, the difference is theyve chosen a scheme that will actually cost taxpayers more. And weve gone through the reasons for that.
This is a reform thats important for not just this generation of Australians, but our children and our grandchildren. This is about changing our economy to a clean energy economy. And in years to come, thats important not only for the climate, but also for our economic prosperity. You cant be a first rate economy if youre not a clean energy economy.
BELLING: Mr Morrison, do you believe the Government is just being held to ransom by the Greens though over this?
MORRISON: Well I think that has been the case ever since this Government was formed. But to pick Penny up on one point, its actually the Governments scheme that leads to an increase in domestic emissions in Australia. The Coalitions scheme, our direct action plan leads to a reduction in domestic
WONG: No one believes that Scott.
MORRISON: Theyre your figures Penny.
WONG: (laughs) No one believes you.
MORRISON: Theyre your figures.
WONG: No one believes that your scheme will
MORRISON: Your emissions will go up by 2020 and our emissions domestically go down by 2020.
WONG: No one is backing your scheme Scott, except the Liberal Party.
MORRISON: So a big tax for no
WONG: Our economy
MORRISON: Our scheme will reduce domestic emissions, will yours Penny?
WONG: No one believes that. No one believes that. The thing is that youre putting forward a scheme that not a single economist supports.
MORRISON: I think the Government is a having a problem with people believing it Penny.
BELLING: Now in regards to if I can just, sorry, pardon me - in regards to the boat arrivals, the situation Mr Morrison. Statistics show boat arrivals are down by about two-thirds on last year. Do you believe the Governments actions are actually slowing the boats?
MORRISON: No I dont because theyre still significantly up on what was happening in 2009. I mean 2010 was a record year, which the Government set. The problem the Government has here is I mean, I think the jury is out on the result, and the jury is out at the High Court as well. But the jury is in when it comes to their competence in handling these issues. I mean the Malaysian solution has been bungled from word go. Were about to enter a new round of back foot, open cheque book negotiations with PNG rather than simply picking up the phone to Nauru once again. So the Governments competence in handling these issues, I think the public has completely lost confidence and trust and thats the issue they now face. Because even when they know theyve got it wrong, as they have for the last three years, and theyve openly acknowledged that now, with the seeking to change policies, they just cant seem to get it right.
BELLING: Senator Wong, do you believe you can get it right?
WONG: I do, and this is a tough policy area and Chris Bowen is doing an excellent job in what is a very tough policy area. But can I just respond to Scott. He talks about competence and blank cheques. You know, the biggest blank cheque is the $70 billion black hole that the Coalition has created for themselves in their costings.
When we hear Joe Hockey talking about $70 billion that he has to find lets be clear thats because they havent done the hard work on savings. They havent done the hard work in terms of costing their policy. Theyve opposed savings measures of the Government. And Tony Abbott has made a whole range of promises he now cant fund. So if you want to talk about blank cheques, there is a $70 billion blank cheque that the Coalition has to find the money to fill because they havent done the hard economic yards.
MORRISON: Well as you know Penny, when you dont tax people, you dont have to spend money on compensating them. And you know that that is a big component of the figures were talking about here. And the Australian people know it, if you dont tax them, you dont have to compensate them. And I think the key compensation theyre looking for is a tax abolished so their jobs wont be lost, so their electricity prices wont go up. Now if were talking about misleading, the Prime Minister said, the NSW Treasury figures that show that 30,000 jobs will be lost in NSW were based on old numbers. Now that, as you know, is not true. The NSW Treasury figures were based on the exact figures that this Government has put out for their exact tax, their exact price and the exact compensation measures so she should fess up.
BELLING: Mr Morrison, Senator Wong, I have to interrupt. Super, super quickly; weve run out of time. I just want to end though on Senator Wong saying congratulations to you and your partner Sophie with the news youre expecting a baby. Have you been quite surprised by the reaction to this announcement?
WONG: Its always, obviously, a little bit disconcerting to have to talk about private things so publicly. But I did want to say Natarsha, thank you for your congratulations and thank you to the so many Australians who have contacted, and emailed, and written to us passing on their congratulations. We really appreciate it.
BELLING: Yes, Scott?
MORRISON: Can I just add to that. I think Penny, this is a very private matter and I commend you on the way youve handled it. But we wish you and your partner all the best.
WONG: Thank you.
BELLING: Beautiful. Now I could chat to both of you all day, weve run out of time once again. Thanks so much for joining us this morning, have a lovely weekend.
ENDS