PRESENTER: Joining us now from Canberra for our regular political debate is Finance Minister Penny Wong and shadow immigration minister Scott Morrison. Good morning to both of you. Thanks so much for your time today.
WONG: Good morning.
MORRISON: Good morning, great to be here.
WONG: Good to be with you.
PRESENTER: Senator Wong, if I can we start with you. That piece we just saw from our New South Wales political reporter Josh Murphy. What a mess. Can anything save Labor in New South Wales this weekend?
WONG: Obviously the Labor Government in New South Wales, having served 16 years, has got a pretty tough fight on its hands. I dont think anybody misunderstands that. Sixteen years in government theyve obviously got a pretty tough fight. So well have a look at what the result is tomorrow. But its certainly been a very difficult period for that government.
PRESENTER: Senator Wong though, from an overall perspective, when you look at the research and the stats from right around the country, Labor is on the nose not just in New South Wales but everywhere.
WONG: I dont think that governing by looking only at polls is the right thing to do. You should govern for whats right. You should govern in the national interest. And this is a week where I think we have very clearly seen the difference between Prime Minister Gillard and Tony Abbott.
I mean, what is the defining imagery of this week? The defining image of this week is the man who is the alternative Prime Minister, going out to a rally standing in front of a sign that says ditch the witch. A rally attended by members of One Nation, members of the anti-semitic League of Rights, extreme groups. Going out to this rally being cheered by them. Then in the Parliament yesterday, at the end of the sitting week, a member of the Opposition describing the Prime Minister as a witch and the Leader of the Opposition making a comment about her finding her broomstick.
I think the Prime Minister is being very charitable to Mr Abbott when she says he shows a lack of judgment. I think these actions say something about his character and his values.
PRESENTER: Mr Morrison, do you think in light of that, it seems all the attention is now on these placards rather than the national outrage over the carbon tax. Do you think in hindsight Mr Abbott should have been aware of these placards?
MORRISON: Look, I think this is a massive diversion being put up by the Government. I mean, what happened this week is several thousand people came from around the country to voice their protest about this Governments carbon tax which they said they wouldnt introduce. Now these people are being demonised by the Labor Government, just like they demonise anyone who disagrees with them. One backbench Labor member said, did they bring their banjos in Parliament this week. So look, this sort of level of demonising of people who dont agree with the Government whether its on this or whether on border protection where apparently theyre racist and all these sorts of things. I mean this is the sort of rebut you get from a government that just wants to force whatever it wants on the people of Australia.
Now those placards, I wish they werent there. And clearly we dont support that type of language as Tony has made clear. But if thats the case and Tony somehow is responsible for that, well the union movement and Greg Combet is responsible for unions that sought to bash down the door of Parliament House back in 1996. So I think the Governments got to get a bit of a grip here. Stop the diversions and focus on the real issue of this week is they are putting on a carbon tax that they said they wouldnt. Its a great big lie for a great big tax.
PRESENTER: Senator Wong, in regards to that, you are former, of course, Climate Change Minister. Do you believe this carbon tax is the right way to go? Now a lot of those protesters in Canberra are so outraged by this. Theyve never protested in their life, a lot of those participants. There is a lot of anger about this in the community.
WONG: This is a tough reform and a big reform. What we have said is that we believe that climate change is real. I think most people would accept that. Its clear from what the reputable scientists say, we know the risk it poses to the nation, particularly future generations. We know also that the world is gradually moving to lower carbon economies.
So they key issue for this nation is how do we make that adjustment? We are a very highly polluting economy. If we just freeze-frame ourselves, we are not going to be able to compete in that world.
Can I just make this point about the rally. I just want to make one point in response to Scott. He is the shadow minister for immigration. Im really interested to know, did he attend the rally? Will he formally disassociate himself from the attendance of people like One Nation, signs which had a go at multiculturalism? I mean, these are not views that are part of mainstream politics. And yet we see the coalition and Scott did it again today sort of saying, oh people are entitled to their views. Sometimes you have to stand up in politics and say
MORRISON: Well they are entitled to their views Penny.
WONG: Look, this is just wrong.
MORRISON: They are actually entitled to their views.
WONG: If I could finish. They are entitled to their views. But you are a politician. Your leader is a political leader. You should stand up and say these are wrong. This is not part of what we should be as Australians.
MORRISON: Well let me ask you this, Penny. Ill answer your question if you answer mine.
WONG: You dont support One Nation. You should come out and say, I dont agree with the sorts of views that were put out at that rally and by some of the people at that rally. I mean, did you attend, Scott?
MORRISON: Penny why would you think that anything Ive ever said and done in the past would indicate that I do?
WONG: Well did you attend?
MORRISON: No, I was actually quite busy this week focusing on the riots at Christmas Island.
WONG: Right, OK.
MORRISON: Because I was pretty busy in Question Time asking the Minister for Immigration about the riots and chaos on Christmas Island. So I was a little busy this week. Im the Minister for Immigration, not the minister or shadow treasurer or anything like this.
WONG: Well maybe you realised it probably wasnt a good thing to attend.
MORRISON: Dont you verbal me about this. I support people coming to Canberra and voicing their views and those views were very passionate this week and that wasnt a rally we organised. But it was thousands of people coming to express their frustration with an arrogant government. Now if youre going to put that sort of question, I have to ask you: did you support the unions breaking down the door of Parliament House back in 1996?
WONG: Absolutely not.
MORRISON: Did you support the rally that called John Howard Hitler? I think well, Labor Members of Parliament attended those rallies in the past and supported those movements in the past. So thats why I think this is just a massive diversion from Labor to take the focus away from what the real issue is.
And that is, the Prime Minister said this week that she believes there is a silent majority in favour of the carbon tax. Well I challenge the Prime Minister and the Minister to take that to an election and test that silent majority because Im quite confident that Australians are fed up with this idea of this carbon tax and its because they lied to the Australian people about it.
PRESENTER: Senator, would you do that?
MORRISON: So lets go to an election, Penny, and sort it all out.
PRESENTER: Would you do that Senator Wong? Would Julia Gillard do that? The bottom line is this is a key issue and the protest was reflective of the fact that a lot of people have been there, that have never protested before and they are very concerned about this. And this is a broken election promise.
WONG: And I think Julia Gillard has been absolutely upfront that shes changed her position and shes explained why. Im interested that Scott says that this is a diversion. We didnt set up the rally, we didnt attend it. It got national press because the Leader of the Opposition chose to attend it. I noticed in a number of his comments
MORRISON: The rally wasnt the diversion Penny. The way youve carried on afterwards is the diversion.
WONG: Excuse me, I actually listened to you.
MORRISON: Well Im just making the point.
WONG: I did listen to you. And I noticed in his comments, Scott didnt comment on the fact that Mr Abbott suggested that the Prime Minister should find her broomstick.
This is a very, frankly, sexist approach to politics
MORRISON: Are you going to respond to the banjo comment?
WONG: To be calling women witches and something that rhymes with witches which is what some of the signs did and having a leader of a major political party, the alternative Prime Minister, not apologising and not disassociating himself from those remarks. But Im happy to answer the question about the carbon price.
MORRISON: Wheres the apology?
WONG: Im happy to answer the question about the carbon price.
MORRISON: Hang on. Wheres the apology from the Prime Minister about lying on the carbon tax? Thats what people want to know from this Prime Minister. Why isnt she apologising for lying to them before an election?
WONG: As I was trying to say, Im happy to answer the question about the carbon price and Julia Gillard has made very clear she has changed her position and shes explained why. We have always been upfront as the Labor Party that we want to act on climate change. And weve been always upfront that we want to price
PRESENTER: But you werent in the lead up to the election because you promised that there wouldnt be a price on carbon.
MORRISON: Except just before an election. Upfront at all times except just before an election.
WONG: Id really like the opportunity to be able to speak at some point in this.
MORRISON: Penny, youre getting a pretty good run.
PRESENTER: Right Scott. Quickly, Penny Wong, can you continue please?
WONG: Thank you very much. And weve been upfront that the most efficient way to act on climate change is to price carbon. If you look at Mr Abbotts policy, his will cost $30 billion out to 2020 that Australian families will have to pay for.
Now it is the case the Prime Minister has changed her position. Our policy was for an emissions trading scheme. We have had to because of the Parliament that we have been given as a result of the election, look to an interim, fixed price period which does operate like a tax, a tax on polluters, before we move to an emissions trading scheme which is our preferred policy position.
Now I think the question is this: would you have expected the Prime Minister to say, well I cant get what I want up so Im just going to not act on climate change, despite the fact the Labor Party has been utterly upfront with the Australian people about the fact we want to act on climate change. Or do what shes done which is to seek to work with the Parliament.
Having said that, I understand that this is something that people are concerned about. I understand this is something we need to ensure we speak with, consult with, and talk with the Australian people about.
But I do have a view that in 10 years time that we will look back and say, if we are able as a government, I think we will be able to get this up and we will look back and say that was a good thing to do. Because its reformed our economy. Its moved us to a cleaner energy economy. And we can compete in a world where low carbon is the way to go.
PRESENTER: Penny, Im so sorry weve run out of time. Scott Morrison, a quick ten seconds.
MORRISON: The key point is here: if the Government is so confident about this, well take it to the Australian people. They say they want to be upfront, well be upfront like John Howard did with the GST. Take it to an election, and actually see if they can get a mandate. They have no mandate for this tax. No mandate at all. And the Minister can on about it all she likes. But at the end of the day, the Australians know that this Prime Minister lied and they are going to hold her accountable for it. And shes running for cover by not putting this to an election.
PRESENTER: Alright look, thank you so much for your time this morning. We really appreciate it. Were sorry weve run out of time. Finance Minister, Penny Wong, thank you so much.
WONG: Thats fine. Interesting as always. Good to be with you.
PRESENTER: (laughs)
MORRISON: Always Penny. Good to be here.
PRESENTER: And shadow immigration minister Scott Morrison. Thanks so much, have a lovely weekend.
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