ROBINSON: Good morning to you, Senator.
WONG: Good morning. Good to be with you.
ROBINSON: Good to have you on the show. Today's poll suggests that you didn't receive a post-Budget bounce, if you like. Primary support: 34 per cent. Two-party preferred: 46 per cent. What are you going to do to turn this around?
WONG: Well, it's true we're in a tough fight. And it's true that this was not your normal pre-election Budget. It's not a Budget where you saw a lot of giveaways. What you saw is a Budget that is all about the future; that is making responsible savings to fund things like DisabilityCare a really important reform for people with disability in this country, and, of course, our education system, our school system. We have a system at the moment which isn't up to the task. We know that Tony Abbott would rip $16 billion out of it. We in the Labor Party want to make sure we invest in our children and in our schools.
LEWIS: Minister, you mentioned before that there wasn't the normal pre-election giveaways. In 2001, John Howard spent, I think it was about, $2.3 billion on winning back support from pensioners in particular. You must have been tempted to put some pre-election sweeteners in the Budget?
WONG: We were very focused on what was the right thing for the future of the nation. And just as Budgets are about the choices about the future, so too are elections. And I think we made really clear to Australians what our plan for the future is.
I have to say, Tony Abbott has also made clear what his plan is, and that's for even more cuts. We saw today Joe Hockey talking again about a budget emergency, talking again about how you have to get back to surplus even faster. That only leads to one thing more cuts, deeper cuts, and cuts that they're not prepared to be upfront with Australians about.
IRVINE: Senator, this almost sounds like you are now the one running the scare campaign on superannuation and cuts, whilst at the same time Abbott is going back to a more: this is what we will do. Is this recognition that you have been unable to sell the good news on the economy low jobless rate, low debt? Why do you think that you have had so much trouble selling the good economic news that you have to tell? Is it a problem with your main salesman?
WONG: No. And what I would say, to start where you started I think it is extraordinary that the bloke who wants to be Prime Minister is refusing to tell Australians what his real plans really are. We got a taste of it in the Budget cuts to superannuation for 8.4 million Australians, cuts to schools across the country.
But he's made really clear that this is a budget emergency. He's made really clear today, through Joe Hockey, that they want to get back to surplus more quickly. You know, Jessica, there's only one way that happens and that's by cutting even harder. But he's not prepared to tell Australians what he would cut.
What he is prepared to say is: I will have a Commission of Audit. Well, we all know there's only one reason the Liberal Party ever has a Commission of Audit, and that's to cut more than they were prepared to reveal prior to an election.
LEWIS: Minister, just a follow-on question though 48 per cent of those surveyed by Galaxy say that they will be worse off, or believe they will be worse off, after the Budget. You must be concerned that you have got half of voters, half of those surveyed at least, who believe they will be worse off. Isn't that an indictment on your ability to sell the Budget, to sell the good economic position that Australia is in compared to just about every other industrialised nation?
WONG: Australia is in a far better position than almost every other advanced economy.
LEWIS: We don't seem to believe it, though ...
WONG: This was a Budget where we had to take some responsible savings. And we did that for a very clear reason. We said to Australians: Look, we are going to take these savings but the reason is we want to invest in DisabilityCare. Because Australians with a permanent and significant disability are entitled to more support than theyre currently getting. And we also did it because we want your child to have their best chance in life.
Our school system currently is not up to the task. We need to ensure that we lift all our classrooms. And thats what were putting on the table. And Tony Abbott has made really clear his agenda on schools is to rip $16 billion out of Australian schools. I don't think that's a sensible economic choice, and I don't think it's the right thing to do.
IRVINE: Senator, if I can take you to the specifics of the Budget there has been some talk recently about the forecasts in the Budget. How are they produced? Is the Government presented with a range of possible outcomes by Treasury from which you get to cherry-pick the biggest one, or the smallest one, depending on which one suits you? Can you clear that up for us? How are those forecasts delivered from Treasury? Do you accept them just exactly as they come or is there some wiggle room for you to select?
WONG: There's no cherry-picking. I know that Joe Hockey wants you to believe that. There isn't any cherry-picking. These are the numbers. These are the forecasts. And they're broadly in line with many market economists and commentators.
But I again would say, where does that take you? If you believe what the Opposition is saying, that the Budget is overly optimistic but they want to come back to surplus more quickly, that takes you to cuts. I mean, that's the only place that Joe Hockey's accusations about fiddling the books take him that he actually has to cut more. And then the question should be: Well, where would you cut, Joe? I mean, he didn't get his costings right in the last election, and they haven't got their costings right in the Budget reply. There's a hole in that as well. It only takes you to more cuts.
IRVINE: Or you could get a recovery in revenues. And what we've seen since the Budget was handed down on Tuesday is the Australian dollar has dipped below parity. It's now at about 97 cents. Can you tell us what impact will that have on revenues?
WONG: We'll have to see how that plays out. It's true that the dollar coming down is likely to improve the profit levels of a number of firms, particularly exporters or those who are competing with imports. So, that is good news in many ways for some parts of the economy.
When we set our Budget and this is probably an indication of why Joe Hockey is wrong there's a rule the Treasury applies about looking at the last period of time. And it sets the dollar at an average over a period near to the Budget. So, it just reminds us that, again, I think Joe Hockey's accusations are really inaccurate.
LEWIS: Minister, as I was reading the Budget papers this morning over breakfast, as one does on a Sunday morning, I noted...
WONG: I'm not sure I believe you, Steve! (laughs)
LEWIS: Well, I noted in Statement Six of Budget Paper One, an increase of about 500 staff to the Australian Tax Office, which is a big increase given that overall public service levels are static or down. Can you explain that? Is that like a secret sort of hit squad to go out there and hit small business? Can you explain why there's an extra 500 ATO staff in this year's Budget?
WONG: There's certainly no secret hit squad. All the measures that those people will be supporting are laid out in the Budget papers. And we have said, unlike the Opposition, we're not in the cart for a GST increase. Unlike the Opposition, we're not planning on a 1.5 per cent levy on companies, large and medium-sized in this country. But we are wanting to make sure we prevent base erosion the erosion of the tax base and we've laid those measures out transparently in the Budget.
ROBINSON: Minister, we need to take a break right now do stay with us. We'll discuss the MPs rushing to take taxpayer-funded trips with Penny Wong, after the break.
[AD BREAK]
ROBINSON: As this Parliament's term comes to an end, so too will a generous perk which allows MPs to take so-called study leave trips on the taxpayers' dollar. An investigation in today's News Limiteds Sunday papers shows, as the election draws near, a large number of politicians are getting overseas travel in while they can, with the annual cost expected to reach $10 million. Back now to our guest, Finance Minister Penny Wong, who joins us live from Adelaide. Minister, $19 billion in debt was revealed this week, obviously in the Budget. Is it a good look to have these Federal MPs, 19 of them, apply for these so-called study trips, when the entitlement is coming to an end in a few months?
WONG: Well, as you said, the entitlement is coming to an end. And the Government that brought it to an end is this Government.
ROBINSON: But theyre still going, and it almost ... it seems like that they might be taking advantage of it.
WONG: Well, I don't know. I mean, you would have to ask individuals about why they're doing, you know, certain trips. I mean, one of the people on the list is the Trade Minister. I would have thought pretty obvious that the Trade Minister does actually need to go overseas that's his job. But this is a Government that ended this entitlement and ended the entitlement for the Gold Card for new MPs. So I think we've made clear our priorities in this.
LEWIS: Of course, and that was ...
WONG: We've ended the entitlement.
LEWIS: Minister, that was, of course, in exchange for politicians, even backbenchers, getting a $45,000 annual pay increase.
WONG: Come on. Steve. This all went through the Remuneration Tribunal. This went through, I think its almost a couple of years ago now.
LEWIS: Exactly.
WONG: I'm interested in a Budget and I'm interested in plans of a Leader of the Opposition who would make 8.4 million Australians worse off because of his attack on superannuation. I think that is a much more important issue about the future than arguing about a set of entitlements which have already been closed down, as they should have been.
LEWIS: You do, though, have three former ministers involved in the failed leadership coup, who have all taken study leave in the weeks since then. It is not a good look for the Parliament as a whole. This is not partisan because both sides are doing it. And as you say, there has been a crackdown. But it's still a bad look, particularly when you have got a $19 billion deficit announced just a few days ago.
WONG: And we've closed the entitlement down. But I think the bad look, as I said, is a bloke who wants to be Prime Minister who will attack the superannuation savings of 8.4 million Australians. Who is going to attack the low-income earners even more, by putting a tax hike on them through removing their low-income super contribution. Who is going to take $16 billion out of the nation's schools, and is telling Australians: Guess what, this is only a taste. I'm actually not going to tell you what comes after, but I am going to have a Commission of Audit which we know is always an excuse to find further cuts.
IRVINE: So if we can look at the plans of the Opposition, one of the things thats on the table now is NSW Premier Barry O'Farrell saying that the GST should be on the table it's an efficient tax and if the states had a stable source of revenue they had more revenue from that they could abolish a whole host of inefficient state-based tax. What's wrong with that argument?
WONG: First, the states were supposed to have abolished a number of taxes before for the GST. Now we see really clearly what the Liberal agenda is. It is to increase the GST, potentially to expand the base, and also to change the GST distribution arrangements, which Tony Abbott has made clear he's quite willing to do from what he said to Colin Barnett.
The Labor Party has made our view clear. We don't believe this is a smart way to do tax reform to increase a tax on families, to increase the rate they pay on the things that they use, to expand the base to take in fresh food, those sorts of ideas. That's not the Labor Party's way. But it's quite clearly, from what Barry O'Farrell said, the Liberal Party's way.
LEWIS: Minister, Tony Abbott has said that if there's going to be any change to the GST, or indeed any other tax out of his review, he will take that to an election. We're talking about, not this election, but an election down the track. This is of course hypothetical because we don't know the outcome of the election, but that's exactly what John Howard did with the GST in 1998. I mean, why is that unreasonable, to put that before the people?
WONG: Let's remember this is also a bloke who said a little while ago that there would be no adverse, unexpected changes to superannuation but he's now made clear he's going to hack into the superannuation savings of just under 8.5 million Australians. A bloke who says, Oh, I support super now, but used to say it was a con job. Well, if you think Tony Abbott doesn't have a clear agenda around the GST, I think just have a listen to what Barry O'Farrell said this morning.
LEWIS: So, on the issue of superannuation, we know that just about every Minister in the Government has been out over the past 48 hours attacking Tony Abbott on this particular issue. Clearly it's going to be part of your pre-election scare campaign. But thered be many
WONG: Hang on, hang on. No. I don't accept scare campaign. How can it be a scare campaign to point out the facts when an Opposition Leader lays out his plans? Thats the truth. I know that Tony Abbott doesn't want people to talk about the future, but I think that's actually relevant to an election, dont you, Steve?
LEWIS: No, absolutely, but there would be a lot of small businesses who would be applauding this particular initiative, which delays by, what, two years the increase from 9 per cent to 12 per cent in superannuation.
WONG: First, if anybody believes that a bloke who thinks that superannuation is a con job his words, not mine will ever vote for, and ever advocate for, an increase in working people's superannuation, well, I think the evidence of history goes the other way.
The Liberal Party have never supported and always opposed superannuation for working Australians. Labor built this over their opposition. It was described as a con job by Tony Abbott.
And just few months ago, he said he wouldn't do anything unexpected or adverse to superannuation and now he's got up and said: Actually, you know, we're going to push it off into the never-never. Does anybody really believe an Abbott Government would ever increase superannuation for working people?
ROBINSON: Minister, we're nearly out of time, but it would be remiss of us not to ask can you win at the election?
WONG: We're in for a tough fight, but yes, we can. We've got to get focused and we've got to get the argument focused on the future. I mean, Tony Abbott doesn't want to talk about the future. He doesn't actually want to talk about what his plans are. We have made really clear our priorities; education, DisabilityCare. These are important things for the future of the nation. And ultimately, elections are a contest about the future.
ROBINSON: Finance Minister Penny Wong, thank you very much for giving up part of your Sunday morning to join us on Meet The Press.
WONG: It was good to be with you.
ENDS