JOURNALIST: Live in the studio, and here with us again are Finance Minister Penny Wong and shadow immigration minister Scott Morrison. To both of you, good morning.
WONG: Good morning.
JOURNALIST: Thanks for being in here.
MORRISON: Good to be here.
JOURNALIST: Now, boy, I dont reckon Ive seen this much turmoil in Canberra in a single week in donkeys years. Kevin Rudd, of course, at the Vinnies sleepout in Melbourne overnight, could he have been dreaming, Penny, of a return to the Lodge?
WONG: (laughs) I think Kevins made very clear hes very happy being Australias Foreign Minister, and thats what hes focused on. And Im very glad he did the sleepout, its a really good way of reminding us all about the importance of dealing with homelessness, and thats why the Governments got record investments in dealing with that problem.
JOURNALIST: Mind you, its almost exactly a year since he was bumped from the leadership by Julia Gillard, and at that time I can remember Julia Gillard, or Kevin Rudd saying that he was, had the support of his party. And sure enough he did they were all standing behind him as they pushed him out the door. The more we hear these denials, the more the electorate seems to believe that its not exactly whats going on in Canberra.
WONG: Ron, a year on, obviously were going to have a focus on this, and its inevitable that people in your sorts of jobs will ask me questions about things like that. But this date will come and go. What wont come and go are the important issues weve got to focus on. And they are things such as the economy, climate change, continuing to ensure we create jobs just as weve created over 700,000 jobs since we came into Government.
JOURNALIST: And the Prime Ministers position in the top job is not considered one of the top priorities of the Canberra talk today?
WONG: (laughs) The Prime Minister is the Prime Minister of Australia, and she has the full support of her Cabinet and the Caucus, and shes absolutely focused on doing the right thing for the country. These are tough issues. Issues such as the carbon price, and weve had a discussion about this before, thats a big reform, its a tough reform. Especially in the face of the relentless Opposition, which Im sure well see continuing negativity from my left here
JOURNALIST: Well, their job is to oppose -
MORRISON: (laughs) ...youre already in here, there you go
WONG: (laughs) Im anticipating that on the basis of past performance
JOURNALIST: Ill give him his chance now. Tony Abbott had exactly the same situation just, well, even weeks ago. He was getting a lot of niggling about how he was holding onto the job. Is this purely a tactic by the Opposition? How can you drive this forward?
MORRISON: Well, I should also note, Tony was also sleeping out last night, he was over in North Sydney, and I support the comments Penny made about homelessness. But it would seem that the people swap in Malaysia isnt the only people swap that this Governments contemplating. And it was a year ago about this time, and that was the last time we saw this sort of level of disruption, and I think its right that people will focus on this.
Particularly when you look at the front page of the Daily Telegraph, and that is a portrait of a dysfunctional government. That is a portrait of a Foreign Minister and a Prime Minister that are completely at odds with each other, and we see that in my own portfolio. I mean, Kevin Rudd has been missing in action on East Timor, on Malaysia, on Papua New Guinea, and this policy just goes from crisis to crisis. Its been almost seven weeks now. Seven weeks, since the big announcement about the people swap, and it still hasnt landed. And that is an enormously long time for details to be finalised. And I really think, I think people are getting pretty fed up with the knee-jerk, ill-thought through way that people approach policy in this Government.
JOURNALIST: I know the politicians want to stick to policy, and they refer to the numbers that they do, and theyre saying theres plenty of support there. The talk continually in the street today, everyone I speak to says: is Julia Gillard done in the top job? I mean, thats the talk. Whats the feeling in Canberra? Is her time short?
WONG: The front page of the Telegraph today, which Scott spoke about, theres obviously a fair bit of focus from Scott, and some in media land on body language, people become experts in body language. Its a bit like a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about the body language between Malcolm Turnbull and Tony Abbott, with the very awkward blokey handshake that they gave each other at the morning tea.
The reality is Julia and Kevin have a professional relationship. Im a member of the Cabinet; we have professional working relationships. And were very focused on doing what we should be doing, which is making sure the economys running strongly, making sure we do the right thing on climate change, dealing with these immigration issues which are tough problems and thats what the Governments focused on.
MORRISON: But Ron, Its not just the dysfunction in the Government itself, its the dysfunction that we saw in the Parliament this week. I mean, historically, both houses of Parliament condemned the Malaysia people swap deal. Thats for a Government motion.
Its not uncommon for Opposition motions to be defeated by the Government in the Parliament. Thats fairly common. But when a Government proposal, a Government policy, is defeated by both houses of Parliament. And there were further votes in the Parliament which the Government lost yesterday as well when it came to censure issues, only to survive on technicalities. I think it shows the level of unrest and dysfunctionality weve seen in this minority Government simply no longer working. And thats why weve consistently argued, lets go back to the polls. Lets get this sorted out, lets get the stability and certainty we need. Whether its on the carbon tax, whether its on immigration issues, or the broader economy issues. How can the Government
WONG: I just want to respond to that. I mean the Government has got a lot of legislation through the Parliament. We are managing the minority Government position in conjunction with the independents. But I just want to respond to Scott. Im a Senator. The Governments other than the time when you had the numbers in the Senate and you introduced WorkChoices with it. The Senate regularly passes motions telling the Government its doing the wrong thing. Ive been in the Senate nearly nine years
MORRISON: That doesnt happen in the House, Penny.
WONG: Just hang on a second. And thats because
MORRISON: Thats the point, the Government
WONG: Hang on a sec
JOURNALIST: The Government is working against the Parliament in both houses of the Parliament. How can they continue with this policy? The House is where you form Government.
WONG: I dont agree with the way youve constructed it Ron, with respect. The Senate regularly passes motions calling on governments to do something, or condemning governments. I was there for many motions where the Howard Government was condemned by the Senate.
MORRISON: How many times did it happen in the House?
WONG: Well just hang on a sec. And everybody just ignores it. Thats the reality you just ignored it in Government. And it is true -
JOURNALIST: Youre telling us the Senate was ignored, I dont think you can ignore the Lower House.
MORRISON: Youre going to ignore the Senate and the House.
WONG: If I could finish. The Howard Government completely ignored it. It is true we are a minority Government, and thats not news. I think Australians know that. And there are occasions when the Government does not have all the votes on every issue in the House of Representatives.
MORRISON: So why not stop, so why not stop
WONG: - We know that. So thats why we have to negotiate bills through just as we have. And thats what the important thing is about governing; continuing to get our legislation through and the Governments doing it.
MORRISON: When youve got both houses of Parliament condemning this deal for a whole range of reasons. And for the Government to say, were not going to listen to the Australian people, were not going to listen to the Australian Parliament, were just going to go on ahead on something that you still cannot finalise after seven weeks. And today we read issues of return, of non-refoulement are now at issue. Issues of non-refoulement, issues of papers and identification. Things that were put as key guarantees still are up in the air almost seven weeks later. And the question is why was this announced seven weeks ago when all of these human rights and other issues were simply not settled, if not even though of.
WONG: If I could respond to that. There is a very clear commitment from no one less than the Prime Minister of Malaysia about respecting the human rights of the people who are returned under this arrangement.
MORRISON: What does that mean? What does it mean?
WONG: Let me finish Scott, I did listen to you.
MORRISON: No I
WONG: I listened to you. But I think what is most interesting about the motion that was passed is that you have Scott Morrison and the Liberal Party voting with the Greens on asylum seeker policy. Now does anyone out there honestly believe
MORRISON: Shouldnt that send you a message?
WONG: Can I just let me finish, please. Does anybody out there believe that Scott and Bob Brown believe the same thing about asylum seekers? They do not. They dont.
MORRISON: We both think its a bad deal.
WONG: Politics sometimes makes strange bedfellows. Thats all I can say.
JOURNALIST: Ive got to ask you another question. $12 million to promote a carbon tax, a policy which really doesnt exist. We know nothing about. Even the independents are now saying this is just not on. What a disaster again?
WONG: On that, weve made clear the final decision on any such campaign would await agreement within the Multi Party Committee on Climate Change on the policy. And were still working through those negotiations. But just remember, were proposing to spend $12 million on explaining to Australians what this will mean. That is less than one-tenth of what Scotts party spent on promoting Workchoices.
JOURNALIST: Alright. Scott?
MORRISON: Independents have independently verified that this is a political expenditure from the Government on advertising.
WONG: One-tenth of what you spent on WorkChoices.
MORRISON: The Independents have said it Penny.
WONG: Come on Scott. You explain to people
MORRISON: The Independents have called you out on this
WONG: You explain to people why $120 million on WorkChoices
MORRISON: $12 million to push your carbon tax. Why dont we just get the ALP to spend their own money, well go to an election and well sort it all out.
WONG: Well $120 million on WorkChoices and youre waxing
JOURNALIST: WorkChoices
MORRISON: Pull the WorkChoices out of the (inaudible) Bob Carr may come up, and Bob Hawke
WONG: (laughs) I think theres a few double standards here.
JOURNALIST: I know these are serious topics but we make great television with you two and we really appreciate you being here. Penny Wong, Scott Morrison thank you very much again.
MORRISON: Thanks Ron.
WONG: Good to speak with you.
ENDS

---