HEGGEN: Our guest in the studio is Senator Penny Wong, our Federal Finance Minister. Hello Minister, thanks for your company today.
WONG: Its good to be with you.
HEGGEN: Great to have you in the studio. Now, youre just about to speak at a womens conference and youve been a keen advocate for getting more women onto our Government boards and private boards. Can you tell us a bit about that?
WONG: Sure. Well, firstly, the conference is run by the YWCA and its called SHE Leads. And its many young women from around the state talking about leadership and talking about how to be a leader doing a bit of work on various aspects of that. And theyre also going to kick off a year long mentoring program. So thats a really good initiative I think, and Im very happy to have the opportunity to talk to a bunch of energetic women who are interested in doing things.
In terms of women on boards, its a very simple proposition really. Weve got quite a few boards in Government, for different purposes and weve got a target of 40 per cent which we have to meet in a few years time. I think its a really good thing because what it means is youre trying to tap into the talents across the population, not just the talents of half the population. And so I think its a sensible thing to do.
HEGGEN: Some may argue that its reverse discrimination: you should put people on boards because of their intelligence and their worth, rather than their gender.
WONG: Yes, you should put people on boards because of their ability, but I think if you say, well, youve got less than half, so say a third and when we came to Government it was less than that of positions filled by women, and we know women make up a bit over 50 per cent of the population, then I think its a pretty hard argument to say well, actually were not as good and thats why there are always going to be more men. I agree with decisions being made on merit. And I think what we need to do is to bring more women into the system, to give more women the opportunity and the skills, and well get more people with ability. And, as I said, it really comes down to if you want the best person for the job, youve got to deal with those things which are preventing some people from getting the job.
HEGGEN: Now, page 5 of the Advertiser today: Lauren Novaks written an article which saddened me but I guess didnt quite surprise me: a call by the states new Equal Opportunity Commissioner, Anne Gale, who says that women are holding themselves back in the workplace to meet their families needs and we need workplaces to be more flexible. Weve heard that call before, but to hear someone of her status saying that women are quite proactively holding themselves back from taking the promotions and what-have-you what are your thoughts on that?
WONG: Yes, I saw that article as well, and I think what it reflects is what you identified, which is we still dont have a system in our workplaces which recognises that theres a family and there are family responsibilities and that those responsibilities are much more shared in this generation of workers than they were thirty or forty years ago. So weve got a lot of work to do, I think, to make sure our workplaces recognise that.
But also that we dont have a set of incentives in place which means if you do take time out, if you do want to work part time, that youre passed over for promotion, youre not able to do a bigger job down the track. You know, theres a bit of work to be done there and Treasury, the Federal Treasury, is working on this very closely.
HEGGEN: Now, youve become a parent in the last eight months. How is baby Alexandra going?
WONG: Oh, shes gorgeous. But every parent says that, dont they?
HEGGEN: They do, but I have seen photos of her back when you released them in December and shes gorgeous.
WONG: We think shes gorgeous but were biased, you know. Yeah, shes great. She has even more hair, which is amazing.
HEGGEN: Thats great.
WONG: Yeah, born with a lot of hair
HEGGEN: And is she sleeping? Its the big million dollar question.
WONG: (laughs) Yeah, not so much. Thats a little bit difficult at times more for my partner than I. But Ive got to say there are times when theyve been in Canberra and Question Times been a bit rugged because wed had a hard night before.
HEGGEN: I can imagine. Was it hard to make that public for you? Because you knew there would be many questions and its such a private time but youre a public person. Was it hard for you to make that decision?
WONG: To tell people?
HEGGEN: To release that information and the photographs. Because you knew that it would
WONG: I suppose that I am a public figure, but Im a pretty private person, and I dont do a lot of media about my private life we dont do television and interviews with the family and those sorts of things. But we did know that thered be a lot of interest, and so we thought it was better to just get a photo out and get a statement out and then it was out there and then we didnt have to deal with any media requests and didnt say yes to any media requests after that. So really it was a way of, I suppose, accepting that the public wanted to know about it, but not wanting to make it too intrusive for us as a family.
HEGGEN: Now, you are an outspoken advocate for same-sex marriage. You wrote a very compelling piece in the latest edition of SALife
WONG: Im glad you thought it was compelling
HEGGEN: the debate with Nick Minchin.
WONG: I think some people didnt think it was (laughs)
HEGGEN: Really?
WONG: Well, people have very strong views on this issue.
HEGGEN: Yeah, and we will see Federal Parliament perhaps take a vote by the end of the year on whether we should change the Marriage Act 1961. Can you tell my listeners, in a nutshell, whats your view on same-sex marriage, and why we should change the Act?
WONG: I think it is an issue of equality. And I understand that for some people its different and for some people its confronting, but I think if we take a step back and think take a historical perspective there was a time in Australia where we frowned on interracial marriage. There was a time in Australia where we frowned upon marriages between Catholics and Protestants. And weve moved on from that. And I think the same arguments, or some of the same arguments, would have been used at those times as are being used now.
I just dont think theres anything to fear from equality, and the fact that a same-sex couple marries is not going to make your marriage or any other marriage less secure. It is just recognising that there are different types of relationships out there. But they are no less committed, and there are many of those people who would like to demonstrate that commitment publicly, just as many heterosexual couples do.
HEGGEN: My guess is that it will be a non-issue in five years time. I think it will be done and dusted.
WONG: I think youre right. Ive been amazed. I got into Parliament ten years ago which is kind of scary. But if youd said to me when I came into Parliament
HEGGEN: How many years ago?
WONG: Ten. Ten in July.
HEGGEN: (laughs)
WONG: I know, Im feeling old.
HEGGEN: Thatll be the children that do that to you.
WONG: (laughs) Thats right. Maybe. I think I felt old before that.
But if youd said to me ten years ago that in ten years time after this that this is where the debate would be, I wouldnt have believed you. And I think theres been a big generational shift. I mean, of course there are young people that have a different view, but most young people I speak to, its just not an issue. They dont understand why its
HEGGEN: It is generational, absolutely.
WONG: Yeah Why is this a problem, they want to do it, thats fine. They have a very different view on this. And I think that is just what youre seeing. Thats what youre seeing in the polling and thats what youre seeing in popular culture, and thats what youre seeing out there in the community.
HEGGEN: What do you make of
WONG: Can I say, also, young people change minds. I thought it was really interesting: Stephen Smith, whos a colleague of mine, whos changed his position on this, so he now says he will vote for marriage equality. And one of the big reasons for that is his kids and the views they had and talking to him about them. So I think that the thing is young people also sometimes help to open the minds of those around them.
HEGGEN: Yes. And its been my view I havent actually been to a same-sex commitment ceremony per se, but Ive spoken to many people who have, and theyve said its the most beautiful, loving ceremony because theyre doing it despite the fact that its not legally recognised.
WONG: Ive been to same-sex ceremonies, Ive been to weddings, and I think theyre all beautiful.
HEGGEN: Now, what do you make of the leather skirt so-called scandal. I just had to put it to you because, what does it say about the depths to which politics can go?
WONG: I just think its 2012, and that if weve got parts of a political party that are still thinking that thats how we should talk about women politicians, well, I think were past that. And its disappointing that those sorts of comments are made. Its also disappointing sometimes when people say, its just a joke, its fine. I mean, the point is, its demeaning if youre always focusing on what women wear, and thats the measure of how you talk about them publicly. I just think we should all move on from those sorts of ways of thinking. And as I said, its 2012, and its a different world and women are in all sorts of positions. Lets talk about what we do and what we say and not what we wear.
HEGGEN: Now it seems like our former Premier Mike Rann is moving on, moving to sunnier, or lack thereof, pastures, a bit more gloomier pastures, in London, to be named as our new High Commissioner WONG: Im sorry Belinda, Im not able to confirm or deny that.
HEGGEN: (laughs) I thought you might say that. Now people -
WONG: I saw it was on the front page of The Australian but theres been no announcement about whats happening with the British High Commission and Ill leave it to the Foreign Minister to do that.
HEGGEN: But if he was to be announced in the next 24 hours, people are saying that it is a jobs for the boys
WONG: Youre doing that thing where you ask a hypothetical
HEGGEN: Yes.
WONG: and you want me to talk about it.
HEGGEN: Thats exactly what Im doing.
WONG: Look, whether or not he is asked to do this position, I think Mike has an enormous amount to offer Australians and South Australians. Hes got enormous experience across many areas of public life and I think he would do whatever job he was given very, very well.
HEGGEN: What are your thoughts on the national polling at the moment? There has been a slight bump for Labor but its still not looking that great ...
WONG: Weve got a lot of work to do and weve come through a pretty difficult time. And obviously the carbon price regime has been pretty controversial and hard fought and very divisive which is a real pity that this is where this debate has ended up.
But my view about it is, you didnt elect me as a Labor Senator for South Australia to just watch opinion polls and Im certainly not the Minister for Finance to just watch opinion polls. So I just try to keep working on my job and doing what you and your listeners would expect me to do which is to make sure we keep the economy strong.
HEGGEN: The asylum seeker bill has passed both Houses of Parliament. The Malaysia Solution has been completely scrapped. In the meantime
WONG: Not quite true Belinda.
HEGGEN: Whats your position? It doesnt look good for the Government given that theres been hundreds of lives lost in the time its taken.
WONG: Im trying not to politicise this issue because I think Australians are entirely sick of this area been made political. We did seek to compromise. We put at least on two occasions legislation before the Parliament, made offers to the Opposition to get a compromise. We werent able to get that. We sought this expert panels report and now were acting on that review.
This is a really difficult issue and any politician who says theyve got an easy answer to it is really not telling the truth. Weve got millions of people moving countries worldwide, fleeing persecution, fleeing to seek a better life, fleeing for a range of reasons. And the level of movement of peoples is far greater than weve seen in previous times in history. It is a hard issue and its been a very difficult debate but you try to make the best judgements you can given some very difficult circumstances.
HEGGEN: I understand you dont want to politicise the issue and I respect that, but how do you think the public views the Government for now adopting the committees approach which is what the Opposition essentially had lobbied for?
WONG: Not quite, actually. The committee didnt recommend a number of aspects of what the Opposition is seeking. They didnt recommend Temporary Protection Visas and they didnt recommend tow backs or turning back the boats because as they made the point that you cant do that unless its safe to do so and its not safe to do so. But Id acknowledge this is an issue where there have been a range of different views put, its been a very controversial issue for the country.
You asked me how people perceive the Government ... I think this is an area where politicians generally have not been perceived as doing well. So we have genuinely tried through this last week to say, look this is what the panel recommended. Some of it is very difficult for members of the Labor Party but we are going to implement it because in good faith we want to try and stop the sort of tragedy we have seen, which is people drowning.
HEGGEN: Senator Penny Wong, thanks for your time this afternoon. Its been great to have you in the studio.
WONG: Its been good to speak to you.
HEGGEN: And I hope that baby Alexandra sleeps a little bit better.
WONG: Thank you very much.
HEGGEN: It does get better.
WONG: Thank you, were hoping.
ENDS