FRAN KELLY: Penny Wong, thanks very much for joining us.
PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good to be with you, Fran.
KELLY: Are you Labor's whinger in chief in the Senate?
WONG: We'll stand up for the fair go, we'll stand up for what's right. I mean Tony Abbott's values are on display for everyone to see in this Budget.
This is a bloke who doesn't believe in the fair go. This is a bloke who thinks he can lie to the Australian people, break his promises, and then make many Australians pay for those broken promises. The heaviest lifting in this Budget is done by low and middle income Australians.
We don't think that's fair. We don't think that's right.
KELLY: Is it a danger for you, though, as you prepare to block a lot of things, vote against a lot of things, just appearing too negative?
WONG: We will take a responsible approach to the Budget and to Budget legislation that comes through the Senate. You know, unlike Tony Abbott, who we might recall in Opposition was the man who could only say no, we'll look at each Budget measure, we'll assess it against fairness, against equity, against whether or not it's a broken promise, and, of course, against the bottom line.
We do have our priorities, though, where we're very clear, we're not for moving, and I think a lot of Australians will stand with us on that. We're not for moving when it comes to things like changes to the pension, we're not for moving when it comes to cuts to health and education. We're not for moving when it comes to the attack on Medicare that is contained in this Budget, and we're not for moving with the attack on low and middle income Australia that really is at the core of this Budget.
KELLY: Let's go to where you might be for moving. Will you confirm now that Labor will support the Government's deficit tax levy on the wealthy?
WONG: This is the increased taxes on high income earners, another broken promise from Tony Abbott, but that is the case. We won't stand in the way of that.
We had deep concerns about the proposed tax hike when there was a suggestion it would hit people on $80,000 a year. Obviously we're pleased the Government responded to that pressure.
Our priority are things, as I said, like pensions, Medicare, healthcare and education. The things Tony Abbott promised he wouldn't touch; promises which he's breaking in this Budget to the detriment of so many Australians.
KELLY: So just to be clear, Labor will vote with the Government for the Government's tax on high income earners?
WONG: We will not stand in the way of that levy.
KELLY: You will vote for it?
WONG: We'll vote for it if that's what's required in the Senate. Obviously ultimately it's a matter for the cross-benchers as well as to whether or not that will be needed. But we won't be standing in the way.
Our priority is the things that I've outlined, that Bill Shorten's outlined. There are things in this Budget which we think have to be the focus of our fight and which we have to expend our energy, as Australians would expect of us.
KELLY: I'll come to that in a moment. But for weeks you've been lashing Tony Abbott about breaking promises. Is this a broken promise you're prepared to support because it's popular with Labor voters?
WONG: No, look, this is a Budget full of broken promises but in Opposition you can't rewrite the entire Budget from Opposition. We know that. And we also know there's so much in the Budget that's bad, we have to be clear and up-front about what we're fighting. We have to prioritise that. And we will be prioritising those measures which really go to the heart of the fair go in this country. I mean Budgets are ultimately about priorities, they're about values.
Not only has Tony Abbott lied to Australians, lied to them in order to get their vote, but he's demonstrating a Budget which really flies in the face of many of the values we in this country hold dear. I think this is a Budget that really does end the fair go. That's what it's about. And I think Australians expect Labor to stand up for those values.
KELLY: Do you think they expect Labor to negotiate too, to try and perhaps make some of the policies fairer? There's signs already from the Government suggesting they are prepared to compromise, know they will have to compromise.
Will Labor help the Government adjust some of their policies, amend some of these policies by negotiating?
WONG: It was interesting, wasn't it, yesterday you had the Prime Minister saying no surrender, that they weren't going to surrender their Budget, but at the same time senior Ministers saying they were prepared to compromise.
I think the only people in this country who think this is a good Budget appear to be Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey, and even their own front bench Ministerial colleagues recognise that they're going to have to move away from some of the measures in it.
It's up to the Government to negotiate the passage of its legislation through the Senate. We will assess all legislation that comes forward carefully in accordance with our principles, and the principles that I've outlined, that Chris Bowen has clearly outlined in terms of fairness and the impact on the Budget.
KELLY: Just to stick with one of the measures, though, because the signals coming from the Education Minister Christopher Pyne is he's aware he'll need to negotiate and there's already a suggestion that they might negotiate on raising the interest rate on the HECS loans and also the threshold for when you pay back HECS.
Would Labor consider supporting the deregulation of university fees if those interest rates for HECS were ameliorated?
WONG: I'm not going to respond to Christopher Pyne's latest thought bubble.
Let's be clear on what he's proposing, though, in relation to Higher Education. He is proposing a set of changes which will put out of reach of many Australians a university education. I mean this is really going back to the approach that we had prior to Gough Whitlam opening up the universities in this nation, where university education increasingly becomes the province of the privileged.
Now that is not an approach Labor will support.
I'm certainly not going to respond to whatever latest thought bubble from Christopher Pyne that doesn't even appear to be supported by his own Prime Minister. I mean Tony Abbott says no surrender, no surrender on Budget measures. We'll wait and see what the legislation is.
KELLY: What about the suggestion, another one Labor's declared it will oppose - the $7 co-payment on Medicare. If there is a negotiation that comes to the point of taking out any co-payment for the lowest paid, for pensioners, those on other benefits, would Labor consider it then?
WONG: We don't support a co-payment and we don't support the attack on the universality of Medicare, full stop.
We're the party that built Medicare. This is an attack on Medicare's universality. It is not only unfair, it is also about breaking down a health system which serves Australia well, which by world standards provides effective care to Australians, and we're not going to be part of dismantling it.
If Tony Abbott wants to do that he's going to have to come through us in the Senate.
KELLY: So that's another no.
Now the Government says they have to raise money, they have to repair the Budget that you left them. In fact, on this program last week Tony Abbott was defending the $80 billion cut to the states on health and schools, and that was really taking away money that Labor had earmarked for Gonski and for hospital deal with the states, except the Prime Minister said, and let's have a look at this, basically that the money was never there. Labor never put it there.
[Plays clip]
ABBOTT: This $80 billion was never in any Budget. It was an unsustainable promise for the out years, made by a government that knew it was never going to have to deliver.
KELLY: You were Finance Minister at the time, was it unsustainable? Did you promise more than you knew you'd ever be able to afford to deliver?
WONG: No, the Prime Minister is wrong, and this is another case of him misleading Australians.
But look, this is a very important question and there's a few points I want to make.
The first point is the Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, ignores the cuts he's making immediately in the near term. I mean there are - there's $3 billion coming out of public hospitals over the Budget period, over the four years of the forward estimates; about $6.5 billion out of schools over the five years. So he's making immediate cuts which he doesn't want to talk about.
The second point I'd make is this. We put forward in our Budget a 10-year funding plan, a 10-year funding plan, doing more than governments generally do in terms of laying out a funding plan for both the Gonski reforms, the school reforms, as well as the health and hospitals reform, as well as disability care, I should say.
KELLY: Just picking up on that the Prime Minister and the Treasurer say that money was never there. What did you say Australians would lose to pay for those reforms?
WONG: We put those things - you'd have to think that really Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey didn't read not only the Budget but also the agreements that they've now torn up with the states.
But we put forward in the 13-14 Budget a 10-year funding plan. They included things like the Private Health Insurance Rebate being means tested, they included the changes to family payments, they included the changes to Higher Education funding that we put in place. They included the changes to things like the business tax base, the tax erosion package that we put forward, some of which the Government has reversed.
Now these were all in the 13-14 Budget Papers. So we laid out our 10-year funding plan in the 13-14 Budget Papers. Now Joe Hockey pretends to not have read that, and they pretend that they can use the fact that this is a 10-year funding profile to justify an $80 billion cut to health, to hospitals and to schools. I mean no-one will buy it.
I'd make also this point: the Prime Minister has announced with a lot of fanfare things such as the Joint Strike Fighter acquisition. The first Joint Strike Fighter won't be delivered for service until 2020, won't be in service until 2020. Is he suggesting that somehow that's imaginary because he hasn't told you how he's going to fund that in 2018-19 and 2020?
I mean the reality is we put forward more information about how we would fund both disability care and the education reforms than governments generally do.
They want to ignore that, and they want to impose an $80 billion cut on health and hospitals, and on schools.
KELLY: Just a political point before I leave this. It seems as though the Opposition has switched tactics at the end of this week. The Opposition Leader's now - Bill Shorten's talking about the Abbott/Hockey Budget, the Abbott/Hockey this, the Abbott/Hockey that. Has Labor got polling or are you picking up around the tracks that you're trying to muddy up Joe Hockey along the way in case the Coalition gets to the point where they want to switch leaders, however unlikely I think that would be?
WONG: I don't think anybody needs polling to know that Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey have put forward a Budget that Australians think is wrong. And I don't think anyone needs polling to know that Abbott and Hockey lied to the Australian people at the last election. I think that's pretty clear, and we're going to keep telling people that.
KELLY: And Senator, just finally off the Budget, reports today in the press that the Speaker, Bronwyn Bishop, held at least one but it now seems several Liberal Party fund-raisers in the Speaker's office. Is there anything wrong with that? I mean Labor's saying her position is now untenable, why?
WONG: I think Australians watching Parliament would be entitled to think Bronwyn is more cheerleader than chair, and now it's quite clear she's also added to that chief Liberal fundraiser in the Parliament.
The Parliament is owned by the Australian people. The Speaker's position is a unique position in our system. Supposedly, you know, to bring impartiality and fairness to the Parliament. How can you do that if you're using the Speaker's suite to fundraise for your party? I mean I think Ms Bishop really is traducing the standards Australians that expect of the Speaker and the Parliament.
KELLY: Senator Wong, thank you very much for joining us on Insiders.
WONG: Good to speak with you.
ENDS
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