EMMA ALBERICI: Penny Wong, good to have you with us.
SENATOR PENNY WONG, ACTING OPPOSITION LEADER: Good to be with you.
ALBERICI: The Prime Minister is calling the deal with Japan historic and unprecedented. You disagree. Isn't this just the Labor Party doing what Opposition parties do, opposing for the sake of it?
WONG: No, look, what we've said is this deal needs to be scrutinised very closely. And I think what's been quite telling since the Prime Minister's big announcement, with the gloss and the hype, is that a fair bit of the gloss has come off this deal in the last 24 hours. And you don't have to take that from me.
I think if you look at what the National Farmers Federation has said, they said this is a deal that falls short. If you look at the pork industry, their comments are that it's a substandard agreement. The cane growers have described it as a kick in the guts. So there are obviously a number of industry sectors who are pretty disappointed with the outcome. And I think it's legitimate for the Opposition to explore those concerns and explore this very simple proposition: is this the best deal Australia could have had?
ALBERICI: It's obvious though you couldn't satisfy every stakeholder equally, could you? I mean even Brent Finlay, the President of the Farmers Federation, acknowledges that the agreement is a positive for Australian beef, seafood and horticulture, wine and others and yet not so attractive to dairy farmers, pork producers and sugar cane growers as you suggest. I mean the former Labor Trade Minister Craig Emerson, who saw carriage of this for probably the longest among any of you in Labor today congratulated the Prime Minister and said it was the best possible deal he could have done.
WONG: Yeah, on the basis of what Craig had been able to see. And the reality is we haven't been able to see that much, not much detail has been announced by the Government. Look, I make the point, it's true that you can't always get everything you want in a negotiation, but some of these comments from very important industries in Australia are pretty strong. And you'd have to say what they reflect is a real disappointment with some of the terms of this agreement, it hasn't gone as far anywhere near as far as many industries would like and were clearly factoring in.
I think there is also a question that deserves to be asked which is, you know, has the Prime Minister sacrificed some of the quality of an agreement because he wanted the announcement?
I have a concern, and I don't think I'm the only one, that Tony Abbott wants to play a lot of politics with trade agreements, he wants the big announcement, he's very happy to stand up and tell everybody he's cut a deal. But, you know, the focus might be a little too much on getting that trophy, you know, for the cabinet and a little bit less on what the quality of the outcome is. What we want is high quality agreements, that's how we secure Australian jobs and that's how we ensure prosperity for Australian industries into the future.
ALBERICI: Well let's have a look at some of the detail. It involves a very major drop in the tariff on beef in particular, 8 per cent in the first year, the second year another 2 per cent, the third year another 1 per cent. So, well over half of the cut happens in the first 3 years. And we're told by Minister Robb that that is the equivalent of something in the order of $400 million plus, just in the first year. It sounds pretty significant. Isn't it better to have something rather than nothing at all?
WONG: Well, I would make the point on beef that this agreement does in fact lock in very high tariffs on beef for a considerable period of time. I think you're referencing the frozen beef tariff. I think at 2032 you're still going to see a tariff on Australian beef, at 2032 just shy of 20 per cent under the agreement.
ALBERICI: But that's half what it is pardon me for the interruption, but it is half where it is now and it's better than any other major agricultural intensive country in the world has been able to achieve?
WONG: And not as good as what we achieved in the Korean free-trade agreement and not as good as what, for example, the Americans have been pushing for with the Japanese.
Now you might be right, Emma -
ALBERICI: But the Americans haven't managed to strike a deal with the Japanese, to be fair.
WONG: And I think the Transpacific Partnership negotiations, which is the regional trade agreement, will include discussion about market access, I have no doubt. But look, the point I'd make is that there's no doubt increasing market access, reducing tariffs is a good thing for our exporters.
We support that. We are the party that did open up our economy. We're the party that struck trade agreements when in government. And I've been on record again in this period of opposition as saying trade brings jobs. But you've got to make sure you get the best quality deal. What we're saying is there are concerns which have been raised by industry groups and they're not industry groups who are known for being, you know, highly critical of Coalition governments, generally. They're people who are extremely concerned about the outcomes.
We're doing our job which is making sure we hold the government to account on this very important agreement.
ALBERICI: Penny Wong, you're Labor's leader in the Senate. Has Labor begun talks with Clive Palmer to see if there's any common ground you share?
WONG: Look, I am Labor Senate leader and part of my job is talking to the cross-benchers and we'll have many more of them after the new Senate takes office in July to talk to, as will the Government. It's my job to talk to Clive Palmer, it's my job to talk to Nick Xenophon, and Senator Madigan, as well as Christine Milne and the Greens. So of course I've had conversations but ultimately, I suspect, we'll see a Senate which will require negotiation on the passage of a lot of legislation and that's going to require a lot of talking.
ALBERICI: Are you optimistic about the relationship between Labor and the Palmer United Party?
WONG: Look, I am optimistic about the capacity of Labor senators to do our job, which is to hold the Government to account, to ensure that we make the Senate what it should be, the house of review, the chamber in which legislation and policy is properly scrutinised. That's our job and that's the job we'll do. That's why people send us to Canberra.
ALBERICI: Are you in talks with Clive Palmer?
WONG: I've had discussions, some discussions with Mr Palmer. I haven't had any legislation I've had to sit down and negotiate with him and his senators because they're not in Parliament yet.
ALBERICI: But you have the important job of opposing certain pieces of legislation you'd rather not see through the Senate?
WONG: And we'll have those discussions with the cross-benchers after they take office, as I'm sure the Government will. And I have to say, the Government likes to point the finger at the Senate for doing its job. They don't like the scrutiny, they don't like being questioned and I think if they're going to want a constructive engagement with the Senate they might want to try dealing with senators a little less arrogantly than we've seen to date.
ALBERICI: Putting the Clive Palmer equation aside, how is Labor going to deal with its own new senator Joe Bullock, who has had some fairly outspoken views on his own colleagues?
WONG: Well, I think Joe has apologised, as is appropriate, for some of the comments which were reported last week and, you know, to my way of thinking that deals with the matter.
ALBERICI: Does that mean he no longer holds those views because he's apologised about them?
WONG: Well he has apologised for those comments and I think that deals with the matter. That was appropriate. He's one Labor senator amongst a number of Labor senators. He, like all of us, will have a job to do, to hold a government to account that doesn't want to be held to account and a Government that is absolutely hell-bent on inflicting budget cuts, cuts to health, education and other services that Australians need, despite the Prime Minister's guarantees prior to the election. I think what we're going to see in this Budget and, and the Senate's going to have to deal with it, is a range of cuts, a range of broken promises from a Prime Minister who told people one thing before an election, and will do another thing afterwards.
ALBERICI: Now, we know Labor recorded its lowest primary vote in a Senate election in more than 100 years on the weekend. What are you going to do to shake off this reputation as a dysfunctional party that sort of can't organise itself let alone run the country?
WONG: I make a couple of points about the Western Australian Senate election. There was a swing away from both parties. People took the opportunity in Western Australia to vote for the minor parties. That's their right. There was a greater swing away from the Coalition than from Labor and that needs to be reminded. People need to recognise that when they ask me that question.
But you're right, it was a disappointing result for the Labor Party, and there's no running away from that. We've got a big job to do in Western Australia. We've got the rebuilding job that we're engaged in now after the loss last year, and we need to do it properly and we need to do it honestly and we need to do it well.
I've said before, Emma, the reason we need to do it well is not just for us. It's for the people we represent. There are many aspects of Australia today, whether it's wages, the fair wages and conditions, whether it's superannuation, whether it's Medicare, the national disability scheme that's coming on track these are important aspects of our Australian community which have been built by Labor governments with the support of a strong Labor movement. Now this generation of Labor politicians, we've got a responsibility to continue to build our movement, to improve our movement, to restore some of the strength that regrettably, you know, some of these election losses have damaged.
ALBERICI: We're out of time, Penny Wong. Thanks so much.
WONG: Good to speak with you.
ENDS
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