FRAN KELLY, PRESENTER: Senator Penny Wong is the Shadow Trade Minister. Senator welcome back to Breakfast.

PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Its good to be with you again, Fran.

KELLY: Trade deals are never perfect, but a deal with China which is the second largest economy in the world and probably soon to be the worlds biggest economy, could add at least $18 billion to the Australian economy over a decade. Thats got to be good for Australia, doesnt it?

WONG: Trade liberalisation is a good thing. You want to ensure your trade deals drive increases in economic growth and maximise increases in employment for Australians. But the figure you just quoted is another one of those figures that the Government has selectively backgrounded, leaked out during the course of these negotiations which demonstrates yet again theyre just not being upfront with Australians about the details of this deal. They dont want to be transparent and thats a pity because part of why you need to engage in good trade agreements is you also need to engage the country in the ongoing process of engagement with the rest of the world and our region.

KELLY: Sure but you cant publicise a deal before the deal is done. I mean its still a work in progress, theyre still going through it line by line. When would you want them to be revealing all this? Now?

WONG: I think they could have been more transparent about what their objectives are. I mean we see for example, it appears that sugar not being included in the deal looks like a foregone conclusion. Its surprising that we havent heard anything from the National Party on this. Theyre very prepared to be very loud about these issues in the regions but apparently are happy to cop a sugar exclusion, which is what is being reported, on a day we know that Australians will be paying more for petrol, again something the National Party apparently oppose. The National Party is very quiet on this.

But look, can I get back to the principle of trade and the free trade agreement here. A trade agreement with China has been over ten years in the making. It is an incredibly important agreement, its an agreement that shouldnt simply be rushed because Tony Abbott wants a political announcement. It should be an agreement that is driven by economic and trade logic, it should be an agreement which maximises the benefits for Australians.

KELLY: Okay. But you can hardly say this is rushed. I know Bill Shorten said Labor wont be giving the Government a blank cheque and one of the red flags for Labor is what concessions might be within this deal on foreign labour with China wanting to bring in some Chinese workers. The Trade Minister Andrew Robb says these agreements would cover senior management and high skilled workers as past agreements have. Would you be relaxed about that and is that your expectation?

WONG: To your first comment about it, you can hardly say its rushed. The Prime Minister set a years deadline on this. And I know if youre going to sell your house Fran and you tell the market that you want to sell it in a year that isnt the best negotiating position.

KELLY: Yeah, but weve been doing it for ten years, to be fair.

WONG: But this Government has said very clearly were setting this deadline come hell or high water, so Id make that first point. In terms of labour, the reason you want to ensure that the right balance is struck between enabling business to get the skills they need, that is temporary migration, and ensuring jobs for Australians is because you want to maximise the benefit of a trade agreement for Australian jobs and the Australian economy.

Now we obviously havent been briefed because the Government doesnt brief the Opposition or the Parliament about its intentions. It puts it, you know, really in stark contrast to the way the US approaches its relationship with the Congress about trade agreements. What I have said on labour movement is you have to strike the right balance. We do want appropriate safeguards in relation to people movement. I think that is a sensible position because what it is saying to Australians is we want to ensure we maximise employment opportunities for you and your children from trade agreements.

KELLY: So what safeguards?

WONG: Thats a matter for the Government to put forward.

KELLY: Well youve been thinking about this, I mean labour market testing. I think New Zealand has done this before. What have they done?

WONG: The options that have been used before one is that you enable space to be maintained for labour market testing. So that is saying to employers if you want to bring people in from overseas you are required to make sure that Australians cant fill those jobs first, so some form of labour market testing to demonstrate there is actually a need for that.

The second is the option youve identified. In the New Zealand China Agreement there were limits set on the number of Chinese workers in particular categories who could enter New Zealand under those arrangements. So those are examples of the sorts of safeguards which have already been used and I hope that the Government, in the interest of ensuring the trade agreement has wide and deep support in the Parliament and in the community will make sure these safeguards are included in the China FTA.

KELLY: Okay I think also important to that wide support that you were talking about is the likelihood that this deal will increase the threshold for Foreign Investment Review Board screening of Chinese investments to just over $1 billion, which is the same threshold for the US and South Korea. Weve only got a minute or so left but should we also be easing those foreign investment review rules for investment by Chinese state owned enterprises? Whats your position on that?

WONG: Yes, on that, I said earlier this year we would support increasing the threshold but for SOEs we said there are, you know, a range of policy concerns which both Joe Hockey and Wayne Swan as Treasurer identified in their foreign investment statements. The Government really needs to demonstrate how any new arrangement would deal with those concerns.

Unfortunately all we have had so far is the Prime Minister floating this some months ago and now we have reports today possibly a week before the agreement is to be signed which suggest Australia is going to give state owned enterprises that sort of access. The Government really needs to be clear with the Parliament and the community about how it will deal with the policy issues which both Hockey and Swan when Treasurers identified in terms of such investment.

KELLY: Okay. Penny Wong thank you very much for joining us.

WONG: Good to speak with you.

ENDS