KELLY: Penny Wong is the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and a member of the Joint Parliamentary Committee on Intelligence and Security. Senator Wong, thanks very much for joining us on Breakfast.
PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good to be with you Fran.
KELLY: The focus of the UN Security Council meeting this morning has been on foreign fighters. Resolution 2178, criminalises traveling abroad to fight for extremist organisations and it has been adopted by all 15 members of the Security Council. Are you gratified at that but also, you know, is it good that here in Australia we are ahead of this curve?
WONG: Look, we obviously, across the world face heightened risk and here in Australia that is the case too and Labor in Opposition will take the approach that we took in Government, you have to put the security of Australians as your first priority and well act responsibly to do so.
Weve indicated to the Government that the second piece of legislation that has only just been introduced into the Parliament
KELLY: On foreign fighters?
WONG: On foreign fighters, we will agree to the Governments timetable for the consideration of that and that legislation will go the Committee you mentioned. The Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security and we will look at it and we will scrutinise it, just as we have on the legislation thats currently in the Senate.
KELLY: The Shadow Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus did suggest yesterday that the crackdown within that legislation that youre discussing on people travelling to prescribed areas perhaps goes too far. Is there a danger with these laws that people with legitimate innocent reasons for travelling to these areas could end up in prison?
WONG: Youve identified the balance, I think, the Government and the Parliament have to strike which is why I think it is very important that we have a proper inquiry with the capacity not only for the intelligence agencies to make the submissions that they will and have the discussions that they will but for Australians to put their views about whether the detail of this is as it should be and as Ive said weve said to the Government weve agreed to your timetable and well put this through the Parliamentary Joint Committee but obviously well do what we did in Government.
KELLY: Weve heard
WONG: We will always do the right thing when it comes to ensuring Australias national security.
KELLY: Weve talked to many people over the last few weeks on the program about this and there is one line of thought suggesting that preventing potential foreign fighters travelling overseas actually places people here in Australia in more danger because local sympathisers could vent their frustration here at home. Now we have the case of Numan Haider he was shot dead by police yesterday. There was some suggestion that that could be a case in point. Did your committee consider this potential?
WONG: Thats certainly a view that Ive seen written about and something that people have the opportunity to put towards the committee but Id make a broader point which really goes to the same issue. I think its very important in the circumstances that we find ourselves to both first remain calm but as importantly remember that bigotry, hatred, intolerance are not things which enhance our security. We must make sure this time, we do everything we can as political leaders, as media representatives to ensure that we promote the values of unity, diversity, tolerance which are fundamental to who we are.
KELLY: Talking about those issues, Liberal Senator Cory Bernardi has said that he wants the burqa banned in Parliament House. Its a security issue in his view. Do you agree there is a security issue about people coming into Parliament House with their face covered. If this could be managed in some sort of culturally sensitive way, would you support it?
WONG: I question the motivation of Senator Bernardi and his colleague in the House of Representatives that at this time where, as I said, political leaders do have to be very careful about acting responsibly and not fanning the flames of prejudice but nurturing unity, diversity, tolerance that we see these sorts of comments. They are not the only comments and of course Senator Bernardi also is sponsoring legislation for removal of protection against race hate speech in the Racial Discrimination Act.
Now this is not a sensible approach and the Prime Minister should really ensure that his Members and Senators behave a little more responsibly.
KELLY: In terms of the timing though, and yes things are heightened at the moment, but are there security issues about anyone coming into Parliament House without having to show their face, I think, that is the only point that some people might think, Oh yes, thats fair enough.
WONG: This hasnt been raised before. Why is it being raised now? There are security arrangements as you probably know. There is heightened security arrangements in Parliament House, theres screening for people entering and there is heightened police personnel presence.
I just question whether this makes a lot of sense for this discussion to be put on the national agenda. I think the risk of it is one we can all identify, which is that it is simply going to fan some prejudice in the community. That is not good for us as a society and nor does it make us safer.
KELLY: You are listening to RN Breakfast, its a quarter to eight. Our guest is the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, Senator Penny Wong. Senator, on another issue, the Immigration Minister Scott Morrison will sign a Memorandum of Understanding tomorrow in Cambodia for the resettlement of refugees there. Considering Labor in government did have a plan to settle refugees in Malaysia, does Labor support the Cambodian deal?
WONG: Can I first go to the Malaysia issue. I hope that Scott Morrison will spend a long time, as will Joe Hockey and Mr Abbott, explaining to Australians how somehow this arrangement is a better one than the arrangement that they struck down, that the Labor Party put in place in government with Malaysia.
I also note that this broke in the media here in Australia not because the Government explained it, but because it was reported in the Cambodian press. Continuing the tradition of not talking to Australians that this Government and this Minister appears to adhere to. We will look at this, we will look at it after the detail has been put out and we will look at what are the appropriate arrangements and safeguards in that agreement.
KELLY: Will this have to go through the Parliament?
WONG: I dont know. Thats one of the issues that the Government will have to address. All we have, as you, is reports in the media and the indication that the Minister will announce. But as I again say if he cant demonstrate that this is somehow different from Malaysia, I think well all see that base politics was at the heart of the Coalitions position on Malaysia.
KELLY: So you dont have particular concerns about a country like Cambodia being able to manage or handle refugee resettlement like this, because there are concerns on the ground from some people in Cambodia weve heard this morning.
WONG: Yes I listened to some of your interviews this morning and of course there are concerns. The question will be whether or not the Government has put in place appropriate safeguards and systems to deal with that. We look forward to the Government explaining that in the way that Mr Bowen, Chris Bowen, explained how he put in place appropriate safeguards when the [Labor] Government put the Malaysia arrangement as a proposition to the Parliament and it was knocked off by Tony Abbott and others.
KELLY: On another issue, Julia Gillard has released her memoirs, its called My Story. Its triggered a fresh round of internal warfare, I guess. Kevin Rudd has described the book as a work of fiction, he says The Australian people have long reached their own conclusions about Ms Gillards relationship with the truth from the leadership coup to the carbon tax. So he is effectively calling her a liar. What is your view of Kevin Rudd going public with that kind of comment about a former Prime Minister?
WONG: Fran, Ive got a lot of regard and respect for the two Prime Ministers under whom I served, Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd. I think both of them have contributed greatly to this nation. I am proud to have been part of a government under both of them that I think left a strong legacy both in terms of the economy and in terms of a fairer society. But I dont propose to engage in further comment about them as individuals. Im a member of a political party that has to work to the future. And there is so much worth fighting for and so much that has to be fought for as is demonstrated by the unfair Budget that this government has handed down.
KELLY: So youre not offering any criticism of someone, who happens to be a former leader, who is so openly critical in such, pretty ferocious terms of a former Prime Minister. You dont think it is appropriate you think it is OK for that discussion to be had in public?
WONG: I dont think it is OK for me, as a member of the leadership of the Labor Party, to do anything other than my job, which is to work today for the future and to take the fight up to this Government. Im not going to be distracted from that task.
KELLY: Its not helpful for Bill Shorten though is it?
WONG: Weve got a job to do and I know that everybody is very interested in all of these comments. I think out there in the community people are much more concerned about the changes to the pension, about university education being put out of the reach of so many thousands of Australians, about Medicare being dismantled. These are the things that people are concerned about and that is what is important for peoples lives and thats what I want to focus on.
KELLY: Penny Wong thank you very much for joining us.
WONG: Good to speak with you Fran.
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