ALY: Im joined in the RN Drive studio now by the Finance Minister Wong Ying-Yen, better known as Penny Wong. Thanks very much for coming in.
WONG: Thats the first time someone has introduced me with my Chinese name, other than around Chinese New Year.
ALY: Thats great, I just made radio history, this is fantastic. This is all very symbolic; the election is now going to be on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. I know thats angered some people whove suggested that this is not paying due respect to the Jewish community - its a very significant day for them. But nonetheless, does it feel like a day of atonement for you?
WONG: I think election days should be a day on which Australians cast their vote on the basis of a contest of plans and policies for the nations future. Thats what elections should be about and thats what I hope this one will be about.
ALY: Did the announcement catch you by surprise?
WONG: Well, I was giving a speech at the time, so I was told while I was on my feet what the date was.
ALY: So you didnt know before she gave the speech?
WONG: No, Im not one of the people that the PM had a chat to, and it's entirely the Prime Ministers prerogative. But can I say this: if you talk to people around the country - and you talk to people on this show - people I think found last year not the most edifying year in politics and the constant refrain to me was, Why arent, all of you, why isnt politics, more focused on the things that are important to our lives, to our families, to our childrens future? I think what the Prime Minister has done is ensured there is certainty, there is clarity and theres also the imposition of discipline. Because I think what this means is the Opposition, as well as the Government, will have to detail our plans for the future and how well fund them.
ALY: Well, I want to get to some of those plans in a moment but it also guarantees doesnt it that we are in campaign mode? I mean I know that the Prime Minister says that that's not what this is about and she said she wants let me get this quote right a year of cool and reasoned deliberation. But surely this does exactly the opposite, doesnt it?
WONG: I think it certainly avoids you asking me constantly what the election date will be, which Im sure you would have done
ALY: Yeah
WONG: so at least youve got a few more other questions you can ask me. But I think it does enable the Australian people to demand of all politicians that they are upfront with their policies and upfront with their plans for the future. I mean, Tony Abbott talks a lot about 'real solutions'. Well, there is no real solution if you dont have a plan to fund it. He has to get through this year now, not only on the basis of a few slogans and not fronting up to the detail, but telling Australians some of the hard decisions he says hell make in order to fund these so-called 'solutions'.
ALY: Okay, I want to pick up that theme in a second but before I do, just to go back, you didnt know about the announcement, but people outside your party did; the Greens were given some heads up - a moderate heads up. The Independents, the cross-benchers, were told about this. It seems strange to me that people outside the Labor Party would have more of an idea about it.
WONG: The Prime Minister has said that she consulted with some senior colleagues, and the facts are that
ALY: Youre a senior colleague. Youre the Finance Minister.
WONG: This is true, but there are a lot of senior colleagues and she certainly consulted with the Treasurer, and the reality is this has always been a Prime Ministerial prerogative.
ALY: But normally the teams in on it.
WONG: Well, no, I can tell you its always been the decision of the Prime Minister and it was on this occasion. And I think its both a brave decision, because obviously there is the element of surprise that tactically in politics we dont have, but I think its the right decision, because it means there can be a focus on policy not process.In terms of what you said before that this will be a constant campaign, you know you have some agency in that and so do your listeners. Because what you demand of us also shapes the debate and I think you should demand of us and of the other side our clear plans for the future.
ALY: Okay, well lets look at some of those. Your side of politics has spoken extensively about the NDIS. This is something that is a major part of the Labor story at the moment. Youve had the Gonski Review and then a series of responses to it. We had Gonski legislation that didnt detail anything last year and so all of this is to come and the funding is far from clear. At what point are we going to hear how youre going to fund these big ticket items that are very expensive?
WONG: First, yes, they are expensive but theyre also the right thing to do and if I can just talk briefly about that then Ill come to the funding question. I think Australians would agree that it's time that we properly funded disability services in this country. That we should, as the Prime Minister said in her speech, that we should be sharing risk as we share opportunity and the current system - if you speak to any Australian with a disability or their family and friends - doesnt deliver the sorts of support that people need.
ALY: Well, theres agreement on that.
WONG: Yes, I think theres agreement on that. So this is a very important reform. The second, on the Gonski or the education reforms: if you look at some of the statistics, and I know theres always argument about this, but I think its true to say that Australia is not performing as well in terms of its school system and our outcomes as many of our competitors. Now, as we move into this Asian century and as the global economy changes its our obligation to equip our children with a set of skills that enable them to grasp those opportunities and to ensure the nations prosperity into the future.
ALY: Which brings us to the question of money.
WONG: Which brings us to the question of funding. They are expensive. And difficult decisions will have to be made in terms of funding them. And what the Prime Minister said today is that we recognise that structural spends that is spending that is locked into the budget for years to come require structural saves. You get an inkling of the sorts of savings we would look at from the savings weve made, many of which have been opposed by the Opposition. The removal of various tax breaks, things like the Dependent Spouse Tax Offset, the changes to the Baby Bonus - also opposed by the Opposition, changes to the Private Health Insurance Rebate - also opposed by the Opposition; very important structural saves. So obviously we will have more to say about that.
ALY: So what you are saying now, just to be clear, is that there are more of these structural saves to come and that is what will fund the NDIS and whatever your response to Gonski is.
WONG: I think the Prime Minister made clear today that we recognise the importance of showing a credible funding strategy for those reforms and that
ALY: Is that the strategy?
WONG: and we will need to bring forward for the Australian peoples consideration some of the sorts of savings measures that weve already seen to date.
ALY: So, whats left? What are we looking at that youre going to be
WONG: Well, thats not a question were going to go into in this interview is it Waleed? Im not going to talk about what might or might not be in upcoming decisions or in the May Budget.
ALY: Superannuation?
WONG: Were into the rule in, rule out and Finance Ministers never do that.
ALY: But you must have in your head
WONG: Well, I do.
ALY: Okay, well, tell me this then
WONG: Im just not going to talk to you about them ... (laughs)
ALY: (laughs) Alright, not telling.
WONG:I think thats not unreasonable. We will detail these decisions when they are finalised. We will detail them and account for them in the usual way in the May Budget.
ALY: How close to finalised are they?
WONG: We will detail them in the May Budget.
ALY: Youre not even going to tell me that?
WONG: Well, you know, Waleed ... there are things I wont talk about.
ALY: Okay, but its a tricky thing because on the one hand the discourse from your Government and not just you speaking to me now but repeatedly has been the Abbott Opposition will not tell us anything about their costings, they wont release their policy, they wont detail... These are two massive things that as yet we dont know how youre going to fund, and youre not detailing that for us. Youve sort of said this is what were going to do
WONG:- But weve committed to ensuring there is a funding strategy thats transparent to the Australian people. But can I just come back to the Opposition and your comment there. I dont think its right to say theres some sort of equivalence.We have consistently put forward our budget and budget updates. Weve managed a substantial write-down in revenues; were getting a lot less tax and weve been upfront with people about that. Weve made some hard savings decisions, many of which have been opposed by Tony Abbott and by Joe Hockey. I mean, Joe Hockey talked about the Baby Bonus decision and likened it to the one child policy in China. This is the sort of level of debate. Tony Abbott is promising greater investment in infrastructure, more spending, lower taxes and higher surpluses. Now that is not possible.
ALY: I understand that
WONG: That is not possible.
ALY: I understand that critique, but Im making the point in respect of the NDIS and the Gonski Review.
WONG: Sure.
ALY: I mean simply saying weve done some structural cuts before, were going to do a bit more of the same and that will fund it
WONG: The structural saves Im talking about would yield over $200 billion by 2020, so these are not
ALY: The logic of cutting, as youve discovered when you eventually gave up on the pledge of a surplus, is that once youve started cutting subsequent cuts get harder and harder and harder which is why theres a perfectly legitimate question to be asked about what the next ones are going to be.
WONG: Yes, it is an absolutely legitimate question and we will answer it.
ALY: When?
WONG: We will detail it in the Budget.
ALY: So we wont hear before May?
WONG: We will detail an account for these policies in the Federal Budget.
ALY: Okay. Just one more on the timing of the election. Joe Hockey has been critical of it which has not really surprised anyone. But one of his criticisms was interesting, and that was that the timing of the election now falls before the full accounts of the current financial year come out so that we wont actually have a sense of what the state of the economy is and precisely how big our deficit was in this current financial year at that time. Is he correct on the facts, first of all?
WONG: Well, Ive got to say Joe Hockey is running out of excuses when it comes to releasing his costings. He really is. I mean this is a bloke who released a set of costings in the last election which had an $11 billion black hole - not my assessment, this is Treasury and Finances assessment.
ALY: But this
WONG: Well, hang on. And since then has he refused to do -
ALY: is about your own
WONG:I can tell you this. You do not need a budget update to know that you have to find savings to fund policies. You dont need a budget update for that.
ALY: But you do need a budget update to know precisely what the state of the budget is.
WONG: Well, it will be interesting to see if Joe Hockey ever announces a save, because he hasnt to date.
ALY: Theyre questions
WONG: And so he keeps saying, I cant any announce savings measures because they havent told me whats in the budget.
ALY: Theyre questions for him, but the question for you is
WONG: I look forward to you asking that because as yet I havent heard a non-bluster answer from Joe.
ALY: Is the timing though of the election campaign convenient?
WONG:The Final Budget Outcome is usually released later than that. But lets remember there are two things that are released before that: the Budget, the annual federal Budget
ALY: But weve seen how that changes
WONG: Well, that is what we all have to deal with, whether its the Opposition or the Government. And lets remember this Opposition has access to a Parliamentary Budget Office, greater resources around costings than any Opposition previously in Australias history. And theres also what we call the PEFO - the Pre-Election Economic and Fiscal Outlook - which also is made public. So, Joe will have plenty of opportunities. He keeps grasping for excuses; as yet we havent seen any credible savings or funding package from him.
ALY: Ill be speaking to Christopher Pyne in the next hour so some of these things I can raise with him. Its going to be - WONG: Ill make you a bet that you wont get an answer on the savings policies from the Coalition.
ALY: Im not a betting man Penny (laughs). Its tempting to take you up on that. Thank you very much for coming into the studio. I appreciate your time and for speaking to us as well.
WONG: Good to be with you.
ENDS