ALISON CARABINE: Penny Wong, thanks for coming in.
PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good to be with you.
CARABINE: The Government wants a vote on the carbon tax as soon as the new Senators are sworn in this morning. Arent you just delaying the inevitable by trying to put the vote off for another week?
WONG: What the Government is doing is trying to talk about anything other than a deeply unpopular budget which hits families and hits our pensioners.
They are bringing the carbon price on today, despite the fact that they Senate is prepared to debate it, not in a few months time but next week. The only reason they are bringing it on is to put pressure on the crossbench to upend the rules of the Senate and to give the Government a bit of a win. Im sure from their perspective is sorely needed given the extent to which Australians know that this budget is unfair.
CARABINE: But the Coalition has campaigned relentlessly for a number of years against a price on carbon. It clearly has a mandate to repeal the tax, we know where the crossbenchers stand, arent you just being a nuisance by trying to stall the vote?
WONG: I know that Coalition Governments might think that accountability and the democratic process of the Senate is a nuisance. I happen to believe that the Senate is an important part of our democracy, thats why so many millions of Australians, so many more Australians voted for non-Government Senators than Government Senators. Thats why we have the Senate we have and the Senate has a range of processes and rules in place which are about ensuring there is proper scrutiny and proper consideration.
Now the Carbon Bills were referred to a committee and they were due to report on the 14^th of July its not a long time and thats what the rules of the Senate say and if the Government does this its quite clear the way the Governments going to treat the new Senate.
CARABINE: So you, want the report into the repeal Bills to be tabled before a vote? Does that mean
WONG: Thats not what I want, thats what the Senate has agreed.
CARABINE: Does that mean you still hold out some hope of convincing enough crossbenchers to block repeal. It must be a pretty forlorn hope.
WONG: I have to say, I am not going to, as Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, going to be in the habit of predicting which way people are going to vote in this Senate. I suspect those people who do that might be in for a pretty hard time over the next few years.
Im simply saying this, the Senate has rules which are about making sure every Senator has the right to scrutinise legislation, has the space and capacity to do their job.
CARABINE: The repeal will be back dated to July 1, the longer the vote is delayed doesnt it become even more complicated for entities such as power companies to refund whatever tax is owed back to July 1. Compliance is going to be pretty complex?
WONG: We are already, if the repeal has passed, we are already in a retrospective world and Id say nothing in the Bill will lessen the amount of financial pain that this Government will inflict on Australian families from policies like their GP Tax and many other policies that will increase the cost of living for Australians families.
CARABINE: With regards to the cost of living we keep hearing from the Government that the repeal will save the average household $550 a year. Clive Palmer wants a guarantee enshrined in the legislation to make sure those savings are passed through. Surely you too would want to see households better off does that mean you will be supporting the Palmer amendment when that goes to a vote?
WONG: We havent seen amendments from Mr Palmer or more importantly from Senators Lazarus, Wang or Lambie. We will consider those amendments as and when they come forward which is another indication, I think, as to why, the Senate should, as its rules indicate, vote on the Carbon Price next week.
CARABINE: The crossbenchers will hold the balance of power in this new Senate. The Prime Minister has promised to neither hector nor lecture them. Eric Abetz describes them as all being Gods children. You will be leading any negotiations on behalf of Labor, what kind of approach will you be taking?
WONG: Well if the Coalition arent going to hector or lecture anybody, I wonder if anybody has told Senator Abetz or Senator Brandis because I have to say their performance in the Senate Chamber suggests that that is their primary way of operating.
CARABINE: Maybe with the Labor Party. They will be cosying up to the crossbenchers.
WONG: George cant help himself. I think he hectors and lectures everybody, that seems to be the Brandis way. Well put our position to them and we will do so courteously and respectfully. If we have differences we will explain why. But I think there is a very fundamental point here which is not about how but is about the what. This is a Government which is seeking to impose, essentially, an attack on Medicare, its seeking to make sure poorer people find it harder to go to University, its punishing our pensioners and our young people. No Australian voted for these things. Now that is what we will be putting to the crossbench. We will be putting to them very clearly, Australians did not vote for these things, they are unfair and we want your support to defend Medicare and equality in this country against this Governments assault.
CARABINE: I take it you will therefore be looking to develop a constructive relationship with the crossbenchers. Now you yourself have a fan in Jacqui Lambie. Shes nominated as her female political heroes, yourself and Margaret Thatcher. Now the quote from Jacqui Lambie: I think Penny Wong is the same as Margaret Thatcher in that she can hold her own, she doesnt back down, she wears her heart on her sleeve, shes sweet, I like her. Will you return the compliment?
WONG: Its very kind of her. I was going to say to Jacqui when I see her in person again, not very often I get on the same list as Margaret Thatcher.
CARABINE: No, never.
WONG: And it is kind of interesting that shes put me there. But look, you know, I think that women in politics as we know do have to hold their own and I think Jacqui demonstrates a capacity to do that and good on her.
CARABINE: Penny Wong if we could move on to the asylum boats, the Government has confirmed that its handed over 41 Sri Lankan asylum seekers to the Sri Lankan Navy, 37 Sinhalese and 4 Tamils. Do you accept the Governments assurances that 40 of the 41 were economic refugees and therefore have no real risk of persecution?
WONG: I make a few points. Australians shouldnt have to read about what their Government is doing in reports from international news agencies.
CARABINE: Well the Government has confirmed that today.
WONG: Hang on, confirmed some facts, belatedly, after dropping some facts to one newspaper. These are serious issues and the Government should treat them seriously. Australians also expect that their Government complies with what are ethical and legal obligations which are not to return people to the risk of persecution. Both parties of government have always held that that is their position.
If the Government says they have complied with that then they should be full and frank about how they have done so, in the face of so much concern, grave concern, that has been expressed by Richard Marles, our spokesperson, and other members of the community.
CARABINE: And did the Labor Government comply with ethical and legal obligations when it returned more than 1,000 Tamils to Sri Lanka under the so-called enhanced screening process? Really what moral authority does Labor now have to criticise the Coalition?
WONG: Are you suggesting that we didnt comply with the Refugee Convention, because I dont, no-one has put that to me.
CARABINE: Well, the Government is saying that its also complied with the Refugee Convention.
WONG: Then, they are the Government and they should explain how. And heres an offer for the Government. Under our system, the Westminster system, Ministers are accountable to the Australian people through the Parliament. The Senate is sitting today, so why doesnt Mr Morrisons representative, Senator Michaelia Cash, instead of coming in and telling everyone, and I quote, Were big enough and ugly enough, big enough and ugly enough is how she, to deal with this problem, why doesnt she come in and give a full and clear explanation about the Governments assertions.
I dont think on something as important as this its good enough for the Government simply to allow rumour to run, concerns to grow, and to simply drop a few lines into one newspaper and believe that accountability has been met.
CARABINE: Penny Wong, we do need to touch briefly on trade, you are also the Shadow Trade Minister. The Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe will be in Australia. Tomorrow he will sign the free trade deal with our Prime Minister, or at least the two Governments will sign the deal. Are you satisfied that this agreement will be in Australias best interests?
WONG: Look we are supporters of trade liberalisation because trade, good trade agreements bring great opportunities. Our concern is two-fold. First is transparency. Weve got a Prime Minister who is about to sign an agreement. If it is good enough to sign, surely it is good enough to release to the Australian people. They still havent put it out.
CARABINE: You mean you havent seen the wording?
WONG: Well have you? I dont think Australians have and he is going to sign it. I think that is fair enough, it is fair enough for people to demand that it be seen.
The second point is quality. You want good quality trade agreements and I would note that a number of industry groups were highly critical of some of the provisions of this agreement. Id just say to the Prime Minister, if it is good enough to sign, surely it is good enough to release ahead of signing.
CARABINE: Penny Wong thanks for your time.
WONG: Good to speak with you.
ENDS