GILBERT: Lets cross live now to the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and the Shadow Trade and Investment Minister Penny Wong who joins us. Thanks for your time, lots to talk about. I want to first of all ask you about this debate about the impact of climate change, the link with bushfires. One of the top UN officials this week said were already paying the price of carbon. Tony Abbott yesterday said that she was talking through her hat and that this is just a normal function of living in Australia. What do you make of that?
WONG: Well first, its good to be back Kieran so thanks for having me on. Look, a couple of things on this. I think the first is that it isnt a great time when people are fighting fires to have a political debate, and weve been very conscious of that, that you know you really need all of us need to focus on making sure that people are safe and supporting the efforts of those who are fighting fires. Its a great thing that the threats abated.
I think the second thing is its really important we have a better and more factually based debate when it comes to climate change and how we deal with it than Tony Abbott wants to have. I agree with Barry OFarrell, and he said I think earlier this week, that the science does show a link between heatwaves or hot weather and climate change and we should have in a more sober environment a proper discussion about that. But, you know, the most important thing when fires are still going is to make sure that we all support the people who are affected.
GILBERT: Al Gore, the former US Vice President, said last night it reminds him of politicians who got a lot of support from the tobacco companies over many decades. Hes likening the climate change issue to that of smoking and lung cancer.
WONG: Look I think the best way to think about climate change is to think about risk. And what were talking about is what sort of risk do we take as a globe, as a nation, over the decades ahead if we dont act and the point I made on election night and Ill continue to make is that climate change is real, it hasnt gone away just because Tony Abbott got elected. And really, theyre the Government, they need to show Australians how their policy would actually deal with this risk. It wont and it will be very expensive.
GILBERT: Mr Abbott makes the valid point though that fire is part of the Australian experience. He says these fires are certainly not a function of climate change, theyre just a function of life in Australia. They have been for many, many, many decades havent they?
WONG: Im from South Australia and I remember many, many bushfires. And thats why I say I dont think its a helpful thing to have a political debate about a particular bushfire. I think once people are safe and the fires are under control I think it is then a time when we can talk about risk and have a discussion about climate change and the policies that the Government wants to put in place in that context.
GILBERT: Okay. Wayne Swan said in a statement that this relates to the increase in the RBAs reserve fund by Joe Hockey yesterday by about nearly $9 billion. Wayne Swan said that had any request been made to him as Treasurer that he would have agreed to it. Now correspondence released and reported on repeatedly which was released under the FOI laws shows that the RBA did in fact request to keep all of its earnings last year but the Government your then Government - didnt allow that to happen, you took $500 million in dividends. Isnt that the case and isnt Joe Hockey in part fixing that?
WONG: Well what Joe Hockey is doing and its very unfortunate is playing politics with an institution, the Reserve Bank of Australia, which should be above politics. And it really demonstrates that Joe hasnt quite made the transition from opposition to being the Treasurer of the Commonwealth of Australia. The RBA should be above politics. If the RBA needs its a very large injection, $8.8 billion I think Joe Hockey should explain to the Australian people why that is. But he shouldnt be playing politics with it and making assertions which are simply not true. The suggestion that he made, that Labor somehow had been asked for this or that Labor somehow had done something wrong in relation to the RBA isnt correct and I dont think its a good thing for the Treasurer of Australia to be taking that point.
But I do think that its interesting weve seen what this will mean is a bigger deficit obviously as a result of Mr Hockeys action. This comes on top of a massive increase that the Government is seeking a blank cheque to increase the debt ceiling to half a trillion dollars without releasing the state of the books. Now what Im reminded of Kieran is Andrew Robb saying, I think it was in 2011, that an increase that Labor was seeking to half the amount, $250 billion, half the amount that the Government is seeking, was a measure of the then Labor Governments incompetence. Well by their own words Joe Hockey and Matthias Cormann are demonstrating enormous incompetence by such a massive increase in the debt ceiling that theyre seeking.
GILBERT: But theyve only been in the job for six weeks or seven weeks but he did explain
WONG: And theyre asking for half a trillion dollars in terms of a debt ceiling. Thats a very large amount.
GILBERT: Which they say is your legacy but he did explain the interests of the
WONG: I hope you pressed them on that
GILBERT: He said that they increased the RBA reserve fund. He did explain it, you said that you needs to explain it well he did yesterday didnt he when he said that there are headwinds looming in the US and Europe? Thats the reason why. He wants the ammunition in the gun he said.
WONG: And Labor in government and Labor in opposition will always be responsible when it comes the global economy. That is in fact our economic legacy. We were responsible in the face in the global financial crisis and responsible in the face of the volatility in the global economy which unfortunately continued for longer than any of us would have wished.
But can I come back to something you just said? You just repeated Joe Hockey suggesting that the debt ceiling was as a result of Labors legacy. Lets remember that the Pre-Election Economic and Fiscal Outlook released by the departments, not by me and Chris Bowen, projected that the debt ceiling would need to go to around $370 billion. Now I can understand that it might be that revenues are down further and Joe might need a bit more. But to suggest that weve gone from $370 billion to $500 billion and not take responsibility for telling Australians why I dont think is the act of a mature Treasurer.
GILBERT: Penny Wong two other issues I do want to get across in the short amount of time that weve got. The new Trade Minister Andrew Robb has been given a mandate by Cabinet to unlock - break the deadlock in negotiations with South Korea, Japan and China on FTA talks, free trade talks. Youd welcome that it fits very much in with the Asian Century White Paper.
WONG: First, I am a believer that this nations economic prosperity is not only tied to our region but that a great driver of our economic prosperity is our trade and our trade performance. And Labor in government, whether under our government or previously, has been a champion of improving Australias trade performance.
I do think its interesting that the government has chosen when it comes to free trade agreements which always need to be assessed against the national interest has such an odd position when it comes to a number of aspects of it. Weve got inconsistency when it comes to the foreign investment thresholds between Barnaby Joyce and Joe Hockey. We also have the Prime Minister saying I have to have an agreement within a year. Now, you and I both know when youre having a negotiation to tell someone that you really need a deal within a year is immediately to give away some of your negotiating advantage or negotiating strength. Im not sure thats the most sensible way to approach this.
GILBERT: Okay, one final issue. Same-sex couples will be pushing ahead with marriages, seeking to utilize the ACT laws despite the High Court challenge and the Prime Minister recommending they wait to see whether these laws are constitutionally valid. What do you say on that?
WONG: Thats a matter for the High Court. My position on marriage equality is pretty well known Kieran. I dont think there is anything to fear from equality and I congratulate the Labor Government in the ACT and all those who supported marriage equality and led to this law being passed in the ACT and obviously the High Court will make its judgement.
But the fundamental principle I believe is that Australia has moved to a position where we dont believe that we should be telling people who love each other that they cant declare their commitment just because of the gender of the partner.
GILBERT: Penny Wong thanks for your time. I appreciate it.
WONG: Good to speak with you again.
ENDS