KIERAN GILBERT: Lets go live to the Shadow Foreign Minister Penny Wong, she joins me from Adelaide. Weve just shown our viewers those pictures, extraordinary historic pictures of Obama with Trump, but is it all believable? We know their true feelings about each other, but also their very different world views, Penny Wong?
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Well thats democracy isnt it? And obviously the election of an American President, of a new Administration is a change point for the US, but also for the world, and this will be a very important process of handover to the new President.
GILBERT: What do you think of some of the reaction to Donald Trump? I want to get your thoughts on his election as well. But in the context of remarks from Angela Merkel, who has said she expresses her co-operation with the US on the basis of shared values, and she listed them. You had your colleague Tony Burke saying we shouldnt change who we are to befriend the new President. What are your thoughts on it?
WONG: Id make a few points. As I said, this is a change point and it will take time for the world, for Australia, to understand the direction that President Trump will take.
I think here in Australia we need to remember certain principles about how we continue to engage with the United States. The first is that the US Alliance remains bipartisan policy, it remains a critical aspect of Australias foreign and defence policies. But that Alliance has never meant that we reflexively agree with everything that US policy represents.
Weve had examples in the past as weve navigated this Alliance over the more than half century its been in place, surviving through lots of changes of presidency. Weve had examples of differences Vietnam, Iraq, the position on climate change, between the Labor Government and the Bush Administration.
I would emphasise Bill Shortens very good speech in the House of Representatives where he said we share an Alliance, but that doesnt mean we trade away our values. And we will continue, certainly from the Labor Partys perspective, to advocate for our values, where that is important, and advocate for an independent foreign policy within the Alliance framework.
GILBERT: So are you going as far as what Paul Keating is saying, in terms of Australia? In his words last night he says what we have to do is make our way in Asia ourselves, with an independent foreign policy.
WONG: The Labor position has always been an independent foreign policy within the Alliance framework. Labor opposed the war in Iraq, and I think history has proved us right, notwithstanding all of the attacks from the Coalition, when we did so.
And I think Paul is absolutely right on this point, in terms of how we deal with this change point, this change of US Administration. First, I think we engage as much as we can with the incoming Administration on the things that matter to us US engagement in our region, a constructive relationship with China.
But the second imperative for us is weve got to work harder in our region. We have to work harder in our region. We have to work even harder with our relationship with Indonesia, with the ASEAN nations. I think Paul is absolutely right to point to the region as being an even bigger priority for Australia.
GILBERT: Because of the Trump win? Youre saying that its causal? That because of that Trump win we need to work harder in the region because we have to?
WONG: I think there is certainly more potential uncertainty. Theres a state of flux, I think, as a result of this change in presidency. It will take some time to understand which direction the new Administration will take. In that context it becomes a greater imperative to engage even more closely with our region, with the ASEAN nations, with Indonesia.
GILBERT: Directly with the US, Mr Keating says Australia should cut the tag with the United States, not simply tag along. He says Australia has found itself in the crazy position of, basically the Alliance, for Labor and the Liberals, has taken on a reverential, sacramental quality.
WONG: I think theres bipartisan support for the Alliance. Weve made that clear. But again what Id say to you is that has not for Labor meant reflexive agreement with every aspect of US policy. Gough Whitlam didnt agree with the US on Vietnam, Simon Crean didnt agree with the US on the Iraq war, and I dare say that both of those decisions, both of those positions, have been proved to have been the correct ones. So you do as a Labor Party
GILBERT: Hes saying cut the tag, hes saying move even further.
WONG: pursue an independent foreign policy, but you do so within an Alliance framework. The Alliance continues to be a key pillar in Australias defence and foreign policy.
GILBERT: He seems to be going further here, saying cut the tag, that it shouldnt be this reverential reference to the Alliance any more, given the Trump win. What do you say to that explicitly?
WONG: Id refer to my previous answer. I think you can continue to have an independent foreign policy within an Alliance framework. I think Pauls focus on the region is absolutely right. As is the need to engage with the new Administration.
Obviously there are some policy propositions in relation to China which would have implications for Australia. We need to constructively engage with the new Administration on those issues which are really important to us. A constructive relationship between the United States and China is in our interest, as is continued US engagement in this region which has underpinned stability and security in the post-war period.
GILBERT: And all of that makes intellectual sense. One of the issues and criticisms of Labor has been the personal vitriol that Mr Shorten levelled at Mr Trump, calling some of his comments barking mad. That was going too far wasnt it?
WONG: And Mr Turnbull described Mr Trumps comments as loathsome and Mr Frydenberg described Mr Trump as a dropkick.
Can I say about that, I actually think it is a little disappointing that the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister and other senior ministers have chosen to focus on that and sought to gain some partisan advantage about things that were said in the pre-election period. Both sides of politics here in Australia engaged in commentary about the US election and both sides said things about Mr Trumps views. As recently as the morning of the election Christopher Pyne was talking about a Hillary Clinton win.
I dont think it is in the national interest to engage in that kind of partisan politicking over you said this and you said that. Weve got a big change here and weve got a man whos been elected as President of the United States whos expressed some views which people have rightly taken a view about, have rightly taken offence at. Weve got a man whos expressed some very different foreign policy views. Those views are the things we should be considering.
How Australia engages with our ally and partner The United States in this time is the big foreign policy question. That is a much more important discussion than some of the partisan politicking we have seen on the floor of the House of Representatives.
GILBERT: About the TPP, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, Labors been critical of it. I dont know whether Labor has vowed to block it within the Parliament, or oppose it. Now that it looks dead, pretty much in the US, do you welcome that?
WONG: Weve raised concerns about it. We hadnt come to a final position. We obviously were awaiting consideration by the final parliamentary committee. But I think thats all become quite academic now. I think it is very clear from what the President-elect has said that the Trans-Pacific Partnership is over. Its finished before it started. So we will have to look to ensuring that we continue to have a constructive trade arrangement with The United States, and continue our good, strong trading relationship with China where we are one of the few countries which has a trade surplus with China.
GILBERT: So just quickly on that, should we then look to the Chinese-led regional agreement which is the Regional Co-Operation Economic Partnership I think it is called?
WONG: I talked about that when I was Shadow Trade Minister in the previous term, as an agreement that was lagging, and we ought to try to invigorate. I think we need to take a step back and think what do we want? What will the new Administration want? How do we better harmonise some of the better trade agreements which already exist in the region?
What I would say also is this; I think it is in Australias interests ultimately for the US and China to be part of the same trading arrangements. I think the more we engage China and The US in agreements and arrangements on trade and on other matters, the more stable and prosperous the world can be.
So, over the longer term I actually think that is the architecture Australia would want but given where the TPP is at, I suspect that is a fair way off.
GILBERT: Indeed, it looks like it at this stage. Penny Wong, Shadow Foreign Minister, I appreciate your time this morning.