DAVID SPEERS: Senator Wong, thank you for your time.
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good to be here.
SPEERS: Now, the Liberal Partys paid for and produced this booklet today attacking Labor's record. Let's just deal with the main suggestions in it firstly. It says Labor presided over the fastest deterioration in our debt position in modern history and that interest payments this year are going to be $12 billion just for the year. Is any of that wrong?
WONG: Let's start with the extraordinary spectacle of the Finance Minister of the country standing up, just days before the budget, launching a piece of political propaganda.
This is a Liberal dirt sheet passing as political argument. And weve got the Finance Minister who should be focused on making sure the budget is put together well, who should be focused on making sure the priorities in the budget are right, playing politics in that way, in a major press conference. I have to say I thought it looked pathetic and I think Australians really will be asking what are you doing? Your job is to govern, why are you here, coming out with this bit of propaganda on debt
SPEERS: It seems the government is still struggling to build the argument, or perhaps not struggling, but reach agreement that there is a problem here, a budget emergency here, in its words, because Labor doesn't agree with that, does it?
WONG: The budget emergency is a political trick. Its a political trick designed to give Tony Abbott cover to break his promises. Thats what it is. Countries with a budget emergency don't have triple A credit ratings from all ratings agencies. Thats what we had when we were in Government. Thats what Australia had. There is not a budget emergency. What that is, is a political trick that Tony Abbott wants to convince Australians of.
SPEERS: But we do have debt rising faster than other developed countries and, as the Minister's pointed out today, over the last five years, deficits totaling $91 billion with a projected $123 billion in deficits over the four years ahead.
WONG: Let's be clear about the projected deficits. Joe Hockey has doubled the deficit by additional spending. And he has increased, not only the deficit in this year but the deficits going forward and the debt figures by changing the assumptions, assuming lower levels of growth, higher levels of unemployment, assuming higher levels of expenditure, in order to create this budget emergency.
You always have to ensure you put in place structural improvements to the budget. That is required. But I have to say, when I hear Joe Hockey telling Australians about this and remember that when we abolished the baby bonus he said it was like the one child policy in China when he talks about the importance of family payments cuts, being reminded that when we tightened the means test on those family payments over time, that it was likened to class warfare. I mean, they certainly said different things in Opposition to what they are saying in Government and it is very clear what this budget will be, David. It will be a budget of broken promises and the wrong priorities. Thats what this budget will be.
SPEERS: Let's just be clear about the starting point here. Yes, Australia's not in the situation debt wise as the United States, Japan, or France or other countries. But compared to where weve been historically in Australia, are you saying there is no problem?
WONG: No, what I'm saying is, the budget emergency is a political trick that is being put forward by the Government in order to justify breaking their promises. I mean, they want hard working Australians to pay more.
SPEERS: Do we have a budget problem that needs to be dealt with?
WONG: Let's recall our debt when we left office, and deficits were a fraction of what the rest of the advanced world is. Now, of course, you have to always make structural improvements to the budget. We took many billions of dollars worth of cumulative savings, about $180 billion worth of savings over six budgets, in order to improve the position of the budget and to ensure that we can afford some of the programs which we know are important to Australia's future. But you have to look at it sensibly.
SPEERS: Okay
WONG: No, I would make this point. Can I just make this point? We saw what happened to consumer confidence yesterday. It is at the lowest level since the global financial crisis. And you have to ask, how much of that is because this Government wants to talk down the economy, talk about emergencies, scare people into thinking there is a major crisis because they think it is in their political interest? It is one thing to trash talk the economy in Opposition. Its a very different thing to do it in Government. The drop in consumer confidence is bad for jobs.
SPEERS: You have acknowledged there, Senator that we do need to have structural changes in the budget. Can I ask, do you think that should also apply to high income earners and what sort of structural adjustment should there be for them?
WONG: Were not in Government. We can - I would point to some of the approaches
SPEERS: But you're a former Finance Minister who has a better understanding than most of us as to what needs to happen.
WONG: And Id point to some of the savings that we did make, some of which the then Opposition, now the Government, want to reverse. Lets look at them.
SPEERS: No, but what we need to do from here, what structural changes need to happen from here?
WONG: Private health insurance rebate, means testing that, which this government has pledged to reverse one of the fastest growing programs in the Federal Budget, very important. We did that. I think you do need to look at the tax avoidance measures that Labor put in place. Let's remember, many of those tax measures for corporations were reversed by the incoming Government.
SPEERS: So enough is being done for high income earners or does more need to be done for high income earners?
WONG: What I would say, if you are asking me about the so called - well, what I think Chris Bowen has appropriately described as the deceit tax, if you are asking me about the Government's proposed tax, what I would say is this: first, let's have a look at what they are actually proposing. It has been bandied around in a range of forms as they decide what they are going to do.
But let's be very clear about two things. First, this is a broken promise. Second, the fact that they are looking at this additional tax demonstrates that everything they said about the budget was a lie. They told Australians, they told you, that the problem with the budget was not tax, it was Labor's spending, Labor's wasteful spending. Well, the very fact that theyre having to look at additional tax demonstrates that their line around this wasteful spending and that was why the budget was in disarray, as they put it, was a complete furphy.
SPEERS: Well, Bill Shorten has made it clear Labor won't support a broken promise on this so called debt tax. Can I ask you as Labor Senate Leader - does that mean you will actually vote against any such legislation or will you simply not vote for it?
WONG: Well, I think the Leader's spoken and the Leader has made clear our position.
SPEERS: He said you won't support it.
WONG: Well, we won't support a broken
SPEERS: Does that mean you wont let it go through?
WONG: We won't be supporting a broken promise. And I certainly want to see what they're putting forward
SPEERS: But you might let it go through?
WONG: No, I think Bills made it very clear were not going to be supporting it.
SPEERS: But does that mean it will go through or not?
WONG: Well, thats a matter for the Government. There is very significant cross-bench they are going to have to
SPEERS: But for Labor's part in the Senate, you will vote against this measure?
WONG: Well, the Leader's position is the Labor Party's position. We will not be supporting it.
SPEERS: But that doesn't mean that you won't vote against it.
WONG: I'm not trying to play games. I'm saying I'm not going to second-guess what different people in the Senate in terms of parliamentary tactics might do. Clive Palmer I think has made his view clear.
SPEERS: I'm not asking about Clive Palmer but Labor. You're not clear whether you will vote against any such broken promise?
WONG: We haven't seen the legislation. But we are not in the business of waving through a broken promise by Tony Abbott. One that he was explicit with people that he wouldn't do and that he is now walking away from. And this is a budget which is going to be full of broken promises and the wrong priorities. You know, I have to say, I think Australians are getting a real sense of what this Government is like.
SPEERS: All right. Labor Senate Leader and Shadow Minister for Trade, Penny Wong, thank you for joining us this afternoon.
WONG: Thanks very much.
ENDS