PETER VAN ONESELEN: I havent spoken to the Labor Leader in the Senate, Senator Penny Wong, on this program yet. Lets break the drought. She joins me now live from Canberra. Thanks very much for being there Senator.
Can I just start with the news of the day, I suppose, these pleas that are coming from the Sharrouf family for his wife and daughter to come home. There was some sympathy in the comments from Bill Shorten, but not a lot to follow that, neither from him nor from the Prime Minister. Whats your view on this?
I mean, do you see this as people who are wrapped up in a bad mans actions, or do you think that they should face the full sanction of the law and the laws being put in place in relation to terrorists that fight over there in the Middle East.
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Well first, good to be with you PVO. Im not sure its necessarily a drought, but its good to be on your show again.
Look, on this issue, first I think its incomprehensible to any of us that someone would take their children into this sort of situation. Its obviously a complex situation, a matter that the Government will have to resolve sensibly and carefully and I presume will take advice from security agencies about how to handle it. So, obviously we want the Government to approach this in that spirit.
VAN ONSELEN: Can I ask you about the citizenship laws, just in a general sense. Obviously theyve only just been tabled this morning, youll want to go through them in some detail, but Im interested in the process. I made an editorial comment earlier in the program that I hope that this doesnt get rushed for the sake of getting the laws in place as quickly as possible whatever the motive behind that might be, wanting to get them right.
The Senate has an important role to play in that, but obviously as an opposition youre going to be balancing the politics of delaying them for too long vs the policy of trying to get any legislation, if youre going to support it, exactly right. Take us through that process can you?
WONG: Theres certainly been a lot of politics in it, hasnt it. And its regrettable that the sort of hysterical comments of the Prime Minister last week demonstrated a real retreat from the professed bipartisanship when it comes to national security matters that he has had to date.
What I would say is: first, on the citizenship laws, obviously they were tabled today. I havent had an opportunity to look at the bill, but weve said as a matter of principle, making sure our laws reflect the world as it is now that is where we have people who join non-state actors, as well as those who might join state actors, against our nation, were up for our laws to reflect the world in which we live.
Im sure there will be a parliamentary process. Most of this legislation in the past has gone to a Joint Committee, rather than a Senate Committee, the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security for consideration. I understand this legislation is likely to go through the same process.
VAN ONSELEN: Now youre the Shadow Trade Spokesperson, in between being Leader of the Opposition in the Senate. Your opposite, Andrew Robb, is often talked about as the most successful of the ministers. Does that mean youre not holding him to account sufficiently as his Shadow?
WONG: I think that what weve seen under this Government is the culmination of, really, a lot of bipartisan work on trade, and in his more frank moments I think Andrew has acknowledged the work of Labor Trade ministers. You dont get a trade deal in a short period of time, you get a trade deal after a long period of negotiation and with China, obviously something was commenced under Howard, progressed substantially under the Labor Government and finalised under this Government.
VAN ONSELEN: But none of us, Senator, thought they would get it as quickly as they have. Youve now had a chance to start to look at the detail; its been a long time coming. Are you comfortable with the deal that they got, or do you think that they gave up too much? And if so, what?
WONG: Look, I think on China there are a few principles I think we need to articulate. First, Chinas our largest trading partner. China is a key part of Australias economic future, is central to the worlds economic future, the worlds largest economic power.
But I do think we have to make sure these are high quality trade agreements. We have laid out some benchmarks and were working through the agreement now to look at those benchmarks. I do think its disappointing Andrew sat on this agreement for seven months after it was finalised, before releasing the text. I think it would have been good to have perhaps released it a little earlier.
Weve had it for about a week, were working our way through it. There are a number of areas we do have concerns and Ive made that clear publicly. We have concerns about the temporary migration provisions. I think we all agree theres a general agreement across both parties of government that temporary migration to fill skill shortages is a sensible proposition. I am concerned as to how that principle is reflected in this agreement how do we ensure that the temporary migration provisions are consistent with that principle that they are for skill shortages? We want to make sure this agreement enhances, rather than constrains, jobs in Australia.
Obviously there are also other concerns. Whats known as the Investor State Dispute Settlement clause is a concern because of the history of these clauses being used to ground litigation against sovereign governments and that is a concern that the Labor Party has had and many people have had.
VAN ONSELEN: I want to ask you about some impending international agreements. Theres the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the United State Senate is looking at that. And then of course theres the Asian Infrastructure Bank, which is up and running, I suppose you could say, but Australia is looking to perhaps sign on. Whats Labors reaction to those two international agreements?
WONG: Sure. First, in relation to the Asian Investment Bank, weve said we should be part of that. We understand there are governance questions that have been raised, how do you ensure an appropriate governance regime, but our view is youre better being part of these plurilateral and multilateral institutions and engaging with our region through those institutions. I think Tanya and Chris Bowen have made previously clear that Labors view is the Government should participate.
On the Trans-Pacific Partnership, there have been a lot of concerns raised because of leaked draft text, or ostensible draft texts. And youve seen in the US, youve described whats occurred in the US, where theres certainly been a lot of twists and turns in President Obamas desire to get whats known as the Fast Track Authority through.
Ill leave it for people who are more expert in the US system to talk to you about those twists and turns. Obviously Im better at the Australian Senate than the US Senate, but I would say this: I think what the debate in the United States shows, the controversy that this legislation has attracted shows, is that you have to go out and engage with the community about the benefits of trade and to deal with their concerns.
There are legitimate issues being raised by the Democrats, by the labour movement in the US and I think in Australia we have seen from Andrew Robb a failure to really engage with some of those concerns. Now, as someone who is from a party that has a long history of trade liberalisation, as someone who has articulated the benefits of trade why we think trade is good for working people, for jobs in Australia - what I would say to the Government is you cant simply arrogantly dismiss the concerns that are raised about the Trans-Pacific Partnership, or any other trade agreement. You have to engage with the community on these issues, and its disappointing that Andrew Robb hasnt done that because I think those of us who do see the benefits of trade, I think, were left in a situation where the Minister is not articulating clearly and engaging with people.
You have to engage with people who dont agree with you when it comes to these sorts of reforms and it doesnt appear the Government is willing to engage with people who dont agree with him.
VAN ONSELEN: Penny Wong, appreciate your insights. Thanks for taking the time to speak to us today. Ive got to badger you to get you away from your family to get you on the Sunday show, Australian Agenda, at some stage. Thanks for your company today.
WONG: Broke the drought. All right, see you mate.
VAN ONSELEN: Cheers.