KENNY: Im pleased to be joined this morning by Finance Minister, Penny Wong in Adelaide. Thanks for joining us Minister.
WONG: Good morning Chris, good to be here.
KENNY: Minister, the leadership rumblings. We have Fairfax Press and News Ltd Press today saying that Kevin Rudd is definitely mounting a challenge in the next few weeks. That senior ministers are out there lobbying for support in caucus for the Prime Minister and for Kevin Rudd. Has anyone spoken to you about the leadership issue?
WONG: Look Chris, can I say this theres obviously a lot of discussion in the papers but I can tell you what Im focussed on. Im the Minister for Finance and Im focussed on the economy. Im focussed on the jobs that weve created and we saw over 40,000 new jobs created in this country in the last employment statistics that just came down. Were at a very important time when it comes to Australias economy, because we know the world economy is changing. That means politicians like me have to focus on the big things.
KENNY: I want to come back to the economy but youre also one of Julia Gillards key supporters. Have you been out there lobbying amongst your caucus colleagues to support the Prime Minister?
WONG: I talk to my colleagues regularly but what Im focussed on is my job. And my job this week, as you probably know, is first Senate Estimates and also as we work towards the Budget, doing the work thats required to make sure we bring the Budget back to surplus, something the Opposition appears not to be committed to.
KENNY: Your colleagues are out there lobbying for support for Kevin Rudd within caucus. Kevin Rudd is actively campaigning for support in the caucus. Are you just letting that go by or are you trying to campaign for Julia Gillard within caucus?
WONG: Well Chris, my views in relation to the Prime Minister and my support for the Prime Minister are on the public record. What Im saying to you is this Ive got a job to do, Im the Minister for Finance in the Commonwealth of Australia. Thats a very important job, its a great privilege to hold and a great responsibility, particularly at this time when the economy is front and centre. As Ive said previously, a strong economy managing a strong economy for now and for the future is the core business of government. And thats what Im focussed on.
KENNY: Im certain that most voters would agree with you on that and they want the Government and the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister all focussing on the economy and the running of the Government. But of course, thats not happening at the moment. There is this great distraction. Do you think it needs to be brought to a head sooner rather than later?
WONG: Chris, I think youve asked me quite a number of questions already on this issue and Ive made clear Im not going to engage in this. I think, and I know a lot of people are interested in this, but I think the people who elect us are much more interested in what we are doing when it comes to their jobs, how we are managing the economy, the Australian economy through this transition. These are big issues and theyre issues about not just today, but for the future. And thats always going to be my focus.
KENNY: Well, just before I leave this topic Minister, (laughs) if youll just indulge me one more time. Of course, you as a member of this Labor Government that was elected in 2007 youve been party to a change in leadership. Weve seen the change from Prime Minister Rudd to Prime Minister Julia Gillard. Was that the right decision, do you believe that Julia Gillard has been a better Prime Minister than Kevin Rudd?
WONG: Look, I think a lot of that I would leave to the commentators. What I would say is this this Government has delivered some very big reforms. This Prime Minister has delivered some very big reforms and Prime Minister Gillard has done that in a context where she hasnt had the majority in the House of Representatives and shes delivered through that chamber two reforms which were highly contested and bitterly opposed by Tony Abbott and by others a price on carbon, something John Howard talked about doing many, many years ago, and the minerals tax, which is about making sure we spread the benefits from the mining boom to all Australians. Now those are very significant achievements.
KENNY: So Julia Gillard has been a better Prime Minister than Kevin Rudd?
WONG: I think theyre your words, (laughs) all Im saying, all Im saying Chris is I think we can look at what weve achieved through a minority parliament with the recognition of the significance of those reforms and Prime Minister Gillard was central to that. They are her reforms, she carried them through this parliament.
KENNY: Alright, you talk about the economy. We have had some encouraging unemployment figures come out this week. Unemployment lower than expected. But weve seen some worrying job losses and threatened job losses in industries as diverse as the financial sector, the aluminium industry, the transport sector, the car industry and the like. Given weve got this precarious situation and were starting to see job losses, is this not the wrong time to be introducing this additional tax of the carbon tax?
WONG: Well Chris, can I say first that any job loss is distressing, any job loss is to be regretted. And you know this Government has put jobs first and while weve been in Government weve seen over 700 000 jobs created. Thats why we intervened in the global financial crisis to save jobs and a couple of hundred thousand Australians and their families who would have been unemployed remained in work because we did that.
I think it is very unfair to those people who are worried about their jobs to have the Leader of the Opposition Tony Abbott telling untruths when it comes to reasons for these job losses. Hes out there saying that these things are happening because of a price on carbon. That is patently untrue. It is patently untrue. And it is completely inconsistent with what people know to be the reason behind some of the changes in our economy that we are seeing -
KENNY: But these businesses are facing difficult times. The high dollar of course is having a big impact on them and there are other factors. When theyre facing these difficult times, theyre also facing the looming additional cost of a carbon tax.
WONG: Does anybody really think that the current difficulties being faced by our exporters, our manufacturing sector, as you say our high dollar which has been at sustained high levels for some time, would somehow be magically brushed away if Tony Abbott managed to repeal the carbon price? My answer is no.
KENNY: Wont it be made worse by the introduction of a carbon tax though?
WONG: The answer is no and our responsibility is also to make sure we continue to create the jobs of tomorrow. And putting a price on carbon, putting in place a mining tax, these are the policy settings - and the investment in skills - these are the policy settings which is about recognising that our economy is changing, it will change, its always changed. You know that - youve been around a long time and youve watched whats happened to the Australian economy, no doubt, as a journalist and as a political adviser. The key issue here is not whether we change, but how we change. You have to have a plan for change. We do. And the difference is the Opposition do not, they have no plan when it comes to surplus and they have no plan when it comes to jobs.
KENNY: Just on the carbon tax though and there are three ways to look at it - the politics, the environment and the economy. Now politically, the carbon tax is a problem for you, weve talked about the delicate situation of the national economy at the moment and from an environmental point of view, we know that the global financial crisis and now the European financial crisis is dampening growth in the international economy, so thats actually going to keep a lid on emissions growth for a while. We know that when economies dont grow, emissions dont grow so dramatically. So there is actually a window of opportunity now from the environmental point of view where you could justifiably say given the other circumstances including our economic fragility, we could delay this tax at the very least. Not discard it, delay it, to give the economy, the Australian economy, some breathing space.
WONG: Well, a few points on that. First, I dont accept that the economy is fragile. And we heard evidence of that this week from the head of Treasury, who talked about the incredible opportunities Australia has, given where we are in the world, and given whats happening with global growth, which is focused on our region. Weve got low unemployment at 5.1 per cent, and inflation around about the middle of the target band.
These are very good figures. Now, we are going through a period where theres a lot of change, thats true. The question is, how do you help manage that change, how do you support Australians through that change. Thats why were investing in skills, thats why were putting in place the mining tax.
But what I would say is this, I dont think there would be anybody who would suggest that you can be a first-rate economy in the decades ahead if you dont also move to a clean energy economy. And the point about a price on carbon is it is also a clear signal about where we need to invest.
KENNY: It is also a massive political problem for the Government. Do you think if theres a leadership change a carbon tax could be dropped by a new leader, be it Kevin Rudd or someone else?
WONG: You know what I think is the bigger political problem? The bigger political problem is an Opposition which used to be a party of economic credibility with Peter Costello, this is what they tell us who now has a $70 billion black hole. Theyll have to cut services in order to fill it. Thats equivalent to about 4 years of Medicare payments. An Opposition that wont commit to coming back to surplus.
And an Opposition where Arthur Sinodinos has had to join their Expenditure Review Committee, because Tony Abbott and his party room dont trust Joe Hockey and Andrew Robb to deliver. I think thats the problem.
KENNY: I thought you would welcome the addition of Arthur Sinodinos to that team, hes pretty widely respected.
WONG: I do respect Mr Sinodinos, and if he can turn that ship around and actually get them to do what theyve never done, which is costings that add up and are transparent to the Australian people, then he would have made a significant contribution.
KENNY: You criticise the Opposition for up to $70 billion of cuts proposed over four years. And you quite rightly say were yet to see what they are, identify exactly where theyre going to find the money. But youre talking about a $38 billion fiscal consolidation over the next 12 months, arent you? And we wont know for over a year whether or not you actually deliver a surplus.
WONG: Oh come on Chris, we put out the Budget. We put out our decisions, which include billions of dollars worth of savings. About $100 billion plus, over 5 budgets. We put them out
KENNY: But none of the recent budgets have come in on target. Theyve had bigger deficits than forecast. We wont know the result until September 2013.
WONG: Whoevers in Government, this is how things work. You have a budget, you have whats called a Final Budget Outcome. The difference between us and them is, we make our decisions, we argue for them, we cost them, and we transparently release them. And we show how we will come back to surplus. They do none of that.
And the $70 billion theyre adding to, because Tony Abbott has this week said hed repeal the Private Health Insurance Rebate means-test, which adds to his budget black hole, adds to the cuts he has to make in other areas of Medicare.
The difference between us and them is that they wont tell anybody. They wont tell anybody which services theyll cut. And remember, $70 billion is how much we pay on Medicare for four years. Thats the sort of level of cuts that theyve locked themselves into. No wonder they dont want to tell Australians what they are.
KENNY: And no wonder theyve got Arthur Sinodinos added to the team to try and find some extra cuts. Look, just before we let you go Minister, I just want to talk about the issue of gay marriage, which has had a bit of attention this week. Weve had a couple of Bills introduced into Parliament for gay marriage. Also a bit of talk from Warren Entsch, the Opposition Whip, whos suggesting he might introduce a Bill that, rather than pushes for gay marriage, looks at civil unions. Do you think that civil unions is a way through this, a compromise route, or do you think that gay marriage is what the Parliament needs to address.
WONG: Ive put my views on this, I think pretty publicly, at the National Conference last year. And my view is that this is about equality. And thats why Ive been a supporter of marriage equality for a very long time. Obviously it appears that Tony Abbott is not a supporter of marriage equality. But more importantly, that the Liberal party room are pretty conflicted about it. Ultimately this is a reform that will only be achieved if moderate people in the Liberal Party are prepared to support it. Thats been the history of social reform in this country, and this is no different.
KENNY: And finally, bad Newspoll results today for Anna Bligh in Queensland, she looks headed for quite a substantial defeat up there. Will you be going to Queensland at all to campaign for Anna Blighs re-election?
WONG: Im not planning to go at this point. I know that the Treasurer was up there. I saw that he gave a very good speech, I think it was yesterday, about this. And obviously theres a lot of Queensland ministers and MPs who are campaigning. Look, Annas been a great Premier, shes done a great job, particularly when it comes to the Queensland economy. And how she handled the whole period of time when Queenslanders were battling the natural disasters that we saw last year was really quite inspirational. Shes a friend of mine, and I hope she does well.
KENNY: Finance Minister Penny Wong, thanks for joining us today on Saturday Agenda, we did manage to talk about the economy, as well as the leadership.
WONG: (laughs) Thanks very much Chris, good to be with you again.
ENDS