KIERAN GILBERT: Senator Wong, first to the Newspoll if I can. These numbers must be demoralising for you and for the leadership within the Labor Party?
WONG: You know Im asked about polls often, and my view is that governments need to govern. We dont govern looking to the polls. I mean if Hawke and Keating had worried about every fortnightly poll we certainly wouldnt have floated the dollar, deregulated the financial services system or removed tariffs. Were focused on governing, and thats what Im focused on.
GILBERT: But the Prime Minister has got this brainstorming session of MPs at the Lodge this weekend. Whats the mood going to be like?
WONG: I think its a very good initiative by the Prime Minister to get people in and to say to people, alright weve got a new year and here are some of the things we need to talk about. And I think it will be a very positive contribution by the Labor caucus; Im looking forward to it.
GILBERT: Do some of the nervous backbenchers need to sort of relax a bit, calm down as you say polls in the past have been low for Labor and youve turned things around?
WONG: I think all of us in the Parliament know politics is a tough game, and this is a tough time in politics. Weve put in place a lot of reform, a very significant amount of reform last year. And now this year weve got to do a range of things, including bringing the budget back to surplus. And thats what were focused on.
GILBERT: Senator Brandis, the Coalitions still obviously well in front. Mr Abbotts addressing the National Press Club today. Would you expect him to change the way hes going about things given his approval rating is still lower than the Prime Ministers?
BRANDIS: I think Mr Abbotts doing just fine, and I think he did just fine all last year, and I think hell continue to do what he has very successfully done, which is to prosecute the case against the worst government anybody can remember, and to remind people that the Liberal Party and the National Party are the parties of hope, reward and opportunity.
GILBERT: So will there be any change in nuance from him? Hes been criticised by the Government for being too negative, and as I said his approval rating is still quite low.
BRANDIS: Look, I think there are members of the Government who have, who havent come to terms with the fact that the role of the Opposition is to expose flaws in the Governments performance. Now its not as if were being curmudgeonly and that we secretly think the carbon tax is a good idea, or the unprecedented level of public debt is a good thing, and were just criticising it for the hell of criticising. Were criticising it because we think the Governments policies are bad for the national interest. We think the Governments management of the economy is a catastrophe and we well understand why people just cant wait for an election.
WONG: If I can make a comment about Mr Abbotts speech today. Mr Abbott is an economic charlatan. Thats what he is. He promises lower taxes, but he doesnt tell us how he will fund them. He hasnt told Australians which services he will cut to fund the $70 billion his own Treasury spokesperson says he has to find to balance the budget. He is an economic charlatan, and if today he does not tell people how he will balance the budget, and how he will deliver his promises, he will confirm himself to be just that.
GILBERT: But when do oppositions outline all of their spendings and savings at this time of the cycle?
WONG: I was in opposition, as you know, before we came into Government. I have never seen an Opposition that is this bad in terms of fiscal responsibility. I have never seen an opposition with a $70 billion self-admitted black hole. $70 billion worth of cuts that they have to find. I have never seen an Opposition Leader stand up and promise tax cuts without saying where he will fund them. And Ive never seen an Opposition give their policies to an accounting firm which was then found to have breached professional standards. And that is what has happened to this Opposition.
GILBERT: Is there anything that you would contest in that? Because Mr Hockey did say that
BRANDIS: Probably all of it
GILBERT: But Mr Hockey did say that the Coalition needs to find $70 billion in savings
BRANDIS: There is no doubt, there is no doubt
GILBERT: and the accountancy firm was fined
BRANDIS: There is no doubt at all that savings will have to be found to address the wasteful management of the economy by this Government. We are still borrowing $100 million a day. We are still in the worst shape financially of any peacetime government in Australias history
WONG: Thats not what Mr Abbott said in London.
BRANDIS: In terms of public debt
WONG: Why did he say when he was in London
BRANDIS: We are, we are, we have an unprecedentedly high level of public debt after four years of this Government. When they came into power there was no public debt. That is how bad things have gone, and people in the suburbs understand that. So of course were going to have to find cuts. And we will at the appropriate time, you mentioned the cycle Kieran quite rightly, we will well in advance of the election disclose to the public precisely how we intend to fund our promises, and where our cuts will be made.
GILBERT: There are big questions it seems not just in the electorate, but in the caucus, about the Prime Ministers judgement and this Australia Day, the protests and the fallout from it seems to reinforce questions about at least the Prime Ministers office, how it operates. It does create more questions, doesnt it, about the way the Prime Ministers office, her judgement and so on, how that is operating at the moment.
WONG: Well thats certainly what George Brandis wants you to say and to think
GILBERT: It was 24 hours after the media adviser told his superiors about his involvement, his role in this, and he was sacked twenty-four hours later. Why did it take so long?
WONG: Kieran, first, that Australia Day protest was unacceptable, and the behaviour was appalling. And I think all Australians would have found that footage not only distressing, but unacceptable in terms of peoples behaviour. What the staffer did was outlined very clearly by the Prime Minister, and he has paid the price. His resignation has been accepted. I think it is unfortunate that what we have seen, including from the shadow attorney-general in the last 24 hours, is yet again the Opposition seeking to make political mileage out of this, and seeking to turn what was a very bad event into a mudslinging match against the Prime Minister.
GILBERT: Well youve heard that, and the Attorney-General says youre using this as a political football now?
BRANDIS: Well this is the language we hear from the Government whenever the Government is criticised by its political opponents, the Opposition is accused of the shocking crime of being political. The fact is that this is an important public issue. It ruined Australia Day 2012. It set back the indigenous recognition process which the Opposition has participated in, in a constructive fashion, to the extent which it is too early to determine. It was a disgraceful act by the adviser. And by the way Kieran, what happened to the old fashioned principle that we take responsibility for what is done in our name? Now we all saw Prime Minister Gillards press conference on the weekend. This man worked on her staff. Even if she didnt know anything about it, even if we were to take her at her word, we waited in vain for her to say, I take responsibility. And thats the problem with this Government
WONG: Lets be clear
BRANDIS: We never hear the words we take responsibility.
WONG: What we always hear from George is another cheap attack, a cheap personal attack. I dont mind politics. But what we see, you know people playing politics I understand, but we say cheap personal attacks over and over again against this Prime Minister from this Opposition. And what I would say
BRANDIS: Whats wrong with (inaudible) taking responsibility for whats done on their behalf?
WONG: I just want to make this point. We also have a man who wants to be the first law officer of the land yet again not respecting the separation of powers. Yet again getting up publicly in his press conference and publicly urging and badgering the AFP to make a different decision to the one they had made. Now I take the view, as a lawyer and as a parliamentarian, that the separation of powers is important. And I think the way in which George, for the purposes of getting more media out of this, has stood up and publicly told the AFP what they should do really is quite shameful.
GILBERT: OK, Senator Brandis?
BRANDIS: I think that is an appalling misrepresentation of both what the Opposition has done, and what the separation of powers means. An Opposition has every right in the world to write to the policing authorities, and request an investigation, and set out grounds why we believe that ought to be done. And might I remind you Kieran, that we heard exactly the same lines from the Government when late last year I wrote two letters to the NSW Police Commissioner about the Craig Thomson affair. Those two letters ultimately resulted in two police investigations, one by the NSW Police and one by the Victorian Police. So the police who decided to hold those investigations certainly werent put out, they certainly didnt feel bossed around. They were grateful for the material that I bought to their attention, so that they actually initiated an investigation on the basis of it.
GILBERT: That is true.
WONG: Investigations by police are a matter for them. What I am critical of is that Senator Brandis chose to hold a press conference in which he essentially said the AFPs comments earlier in the day that no criminal act had been determined, had been ascertained was something he did not accept. Now I dont think, that in the context of a press conference, that is an appropriate thing for a parliamentarian, particularly a senior parliamentarian to contend.
GILBERT: Just quickly, Senator Brandis?
BRANDIS: As a matter a fact that was not what I said. You misrepresented what I said. What I said was whether or not an offence was committed, is one question but there is a broader question and that is how this admitted serious security breach was allowed to occur.
GILBERT: I want to play a comment now from the father of reconciliation, Patrick Dodson in the inaugural Gandhi Oration at the University of New South Wales last night. Hes condemned the bad manners and unnecessary aggressive behaviour, but asserts peoples right to assert their political position, lets play it for you.
[Excerpt] It would be simplistic however to condemn outright the behaviour of protesters associated with the Tent Embassy last week without considering the sense of oppression that some of our people still feel towards our governments on a whole range of matters. I will always condemn bad manners and unnecessarily aggressive behaviour by whomever. But I will also defend peoples rights to assert their political position.
GILBERT: So Patrick Dodson there, is saying that he condemns the aggressive behaviour but asserts peoples right to make their political position and he says to look at why people feel oppressed in this day and age. Do you think thats a fair enough point to make? Theyre not mutually exclusive are they?
BRANDIS: Theyre not. I dont think theres anything wrong at all with people having different points of view. The reason Im in the Liberal Party is because we actually believe in freedom of individuals to differ, to lead their own lives and have their own views and express them in their own ways. But I think its a matter of common sense, theres a difference between expressing an opinion and the kind of violent conduct that we saw on Australia Day. But our principal criticism, might I remind you Kieran isnt of the people concerned in the protest. Though they did act badly, well some of them did at least. But the fact that at least one person within the Prime Ministers office, with the involvement of we dont know how many others, precipitated this event.
WONG: Thats just another smear. The Prime Minster has answered that question.
BRANDIS: The Prime Minister doesnt tell the truth Penny. This is the problem you have with a Prime Minister who doesnt tell the truth.
WONG: I dont agree with that. She took many questions at that press conference and answered them fully. If we want to return to the issue, yet again what we are see is the Opposition who doesnt want to talk about the issue, they wantto talk about their smear campaign. I think there is a distinction between peaceful protests, and the right to peaceful protest and the sort of aggression and disrespect that we saw on television, and I think most Australians would agree with that.
GILBERT: I want to ask you now Finance Minister about the big banks, they seem to be crying poor ahead of whats expected to be a rate cut next week by the RBA. What do you think what can the Government do? They cant really do much. This is really going to be your stimulus package if there is another financial crisis, isnt it? Youve got to rely on monetary policy, you dont have any fiscal scope.
WONG: Monetary policy is run by the Reserve Bank independently. What Id say in relation to the banks is this. I always think that banks always have to think about their public image and their customers. And whether or not the sort of conduct that some people are suggesting might or might not occur, whether thats the sort of thing their customers and the Australian public think is acceptable.
GILBERT: What did you think about the PriceWaterhouse Coopers report yesterday which cited sovereign riskas a threat?
WONG: What Id say about the Australian economy is we have got the AAA rating from all ratings agencies which is the first time Australia has got that and that demonstrates the strength of the Australian economy. Our banks came through the GFC well and they are in a better position than they were at that time. Obviously, youve got to continue doing what youre doing which is managing the economy sensibly.
GILBERT: Senator Brandis any thoughts on that?
BRANDIS: Yes, two things. First of all, let me correct something Penny said. During the last period of the Labor Government, the Australian ratings were downgraded not once but twice. And it took some years of work by John Howard and Peter Costello to restore the AAA credit rating. So far from this being the first time Australia has had a AAA credit rating. It had a AAA credit rating before the last period of a Labor Government. It was downgraded
WONG: From all the agencies, from all three agencies was what I said George.
BRANDIS: It was downgraded twice and was restored as a result of the policies of John Howard and Peter Costello. Secondly, this is the first occasion that I can remember in Australia where a credible economic commentator has raised sovereign risk as a problem for this country and that tells you all you need to know about the appalling way this Government has mismanaged the economy.
WONG: I make the point again, all three international agencies have given us a AAA rating and it is the case
BRANDIS: I wonder how long well have it for.
WONG: I know George you dont like that fact, but it is a fact.
BRANDIS: You got a AAA credit rating as a result, it was the legacy of the Howard Government.
WONG: Well it happened under us.
GILBERT: Senator Wong, Senator Brandis great to see you both.
WONG: Great to see you.
ENDS