PETER VAN ONSELEN: No real surprise in what was announced after the Caucus meeting. This has been in train for some time, hasnt it? Were there any voices of dissent, people that wouldve preferred the plebiscite to go ahead?

SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: No, it was carried unanimously, in fact, and I think is a demonstration of whats happened over the last few weeks where people have looked at this proposition, theyve considered it, people who are supporters of Marriage Equality. Weve talked to our community, weve talked to the people we represent, weve talked to families, same sex couple-headed families, and I think the consistent message has been we dont want a divisive plebiscite, we dont want an expensive plebiscite and we dont want something that is ultimately non-binding. So I think this is a good decision and its a decision which reminds us again that Malcolm Turnbull cant keep avoiding responsibility in the way that hes seeking to.

VAN ONSELEN: My colleague here at Sky News, David Speers, just a moment ago said that he thinks the question politically now for Malcolm Turnbull is whether he allows a free vote in the next Parliament. I thought it might be this Parliament but David took the view that, no, it cant be this Parliament. That would shred him with his conservative base, the next Parliament becomes the debate. Does Labor therefore accept that if thats political reality for Malcolm Turnbull, that it is Labor that is choosing to delay same sex marriage to avoid a plebiscite?

WONG: Look, Ive got a lot of respect for David Speers, Ive got a lot of respect for you, but I do find it interesting that youre just choosing to let the Prime Minister of the country off the hook. He is the Prime Minister. He should lead. And all of this in the beltway discussion that says he cant do this because some backbencher said this or some backbencher said that. He is the leader of the country. He should show some leadership. The reality is we would have Marriage Equality this term if he did what he wanted to do, which is to have a free vote.

VAN ONSELEN: Look, Im playing devils advocate on this. I think he has to do it this term. I think hes fulfilled his election pledge if he puts the plebiscite to Parliament and then it gets defeated. I think he has to put it to Parliament despite your decision today. But having said all that, though, it doesnt look like that is what he will do. So Labor has at least had a hand, therefore, in slowing down the progress towards Same Sex Marriage. Perhaps because you say wed rather slow it down than go through a divisive plebiscite.

WONG: Well theres no such thing as a good plebiscite. One of the parents said that to me today at the press conference. She said theres no such thing as a good plebiscite. Lets remember theres a fundamental issue of principle here. But if you want to talk about political tactics, lets say this: are we really suggesting that Malcolm Turnbull and his moderates are going to spend the next one, two years voting not to vote? Because thats the proposition. They are going to keep voting not to vote on Marriage Equality, not to even have a vote. Now, how tenable is that?

I believe that the politics of this issue, like the politics of anything, does depend on leadership and does depend on campaigning. What I would say to members of the community who are supportive of Marriage Equality, we need to campaign. We need to put the pressure on your Parliament to do our job, which is to have a free vote on this issue.

Now, on Malcolm Turnbull, I understand hes got a bunch of hardliners who will never compromise on this issue. And I think that is the important point. At some point someones going to have to stand up to them because there is no way these individuals, with the views that they hold about people like me and our families, are ever going to compromise. So at some point Malcolm Turnbull has to show some leadership. I do have a view: if you cant lead you have to ask why should he be Prime Minister? And what is the point of being Prime Minister if you cant lead?

VAN ONSELEN: How important was the Newspoll form the other week that showed theres been a real turnaround in community support for the plebiscite? Previous polls showed that people are in favour of it but clearly that has clearly shifted.

WONG: Its a good question. Ive been on record from prior to the last election as not supporting a plebiscite, but I thought what was important about that is that it showed that the community has shifted. It showed that the community hasnt simply gone oh yes well go down the path that Malcolm has been forced to go down by the hard right. People have actually thought about this, theyve listened to the arguments and the polling has showed a substantial shift from a number of months ago, and is essentially saying to all of us who have been elected: do your job.

VAN ONSELEN: David Speers and I when we were talking earlier agreed that yourself and Tanya Plibersek have long opposed the plebiscite because of a combination of reasons, you know listening to the LGBTI community, concerns about the mental health implications, the idea of a plebiscite about rights. But I also made the point that I think Bill Shorten whilst that is where he has now landed, at first there was political decision making for him about how much this wedges Malcolm Turnbull. When did he shift, when did he join you two in being primarily about the LGBTI community and some of those other factors?

WONG: Look, you know politicians do actually go through a process of considering big decisions and I didnt start with a position that was completely opposed to the plebiscite. This has been something Ive certainly thought about and others, including Bill, have thought about. We dont want to stand in the way of Marriage Equality. Is this the only way? Is this a reasonable path or not? And people thought about it deeply, consulted with people, talked to people and we have arrived at the position we have arrived at, as a result of that consideration and those discussions.

VAN ONSELEN: And Senator on that is this, I know your side of politics wants a free vote this term, I know that has been made patently clear. But is it also fair to say that beyond that, that Labor made a decision that the lesser of evils if they cant have a free vote this term, would be to have no divisive plebiscite and therefore wait for the next opportunity to be able to have a Same Sex Marriage Bill before the Parliament that is successful

WONG: Well I think probably the better way to look at it is to say we looked at whether a plebiscite was a reasonable option and we came to the view that it wasnt. As the woman I met at the press conference today said there is no such thing as a good plebiscite. I think we did come to that view and it wasnt a knee jerk reaction. It was something we considered as people who, Bill, Tanya, myself and many others, we are long on the record as being supportive of Marriage Equality.