DAVID SPEERS: The China Free Trade Agreement may be inching closer to agreement in the Parliament. The Government wants it through by the end of this year, so that it can come into force. Today Labor has revealed the sort of changes it wants, it says not to the deal itself but to other areas of legislation that would satisfy the concerns it has about the China Free Trade Agreement. To talk more about it we're joined now by the Senate Trade Minister and Labor's Senate Leader Penny Wong. Thanks for your time this afternoon.
SENATOR PENNY WONG, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE: Good to be with you.
SPEERS: None of the amendments you're talking about would change the China Free Trade Agreement, the Memorandum of Understanding or the side letters?
WONG: Correct. That's the principle on which we've been working. Obviously these are exposure drafts and we'll listen to what the Government has to say and to stakeholders. Whilst this is not the agreement a Labor Government would have done, we wouldn't have given away some of the things the Government has, we recognise a responsible Opposition can't rewrite the agreement without risking the agreement.
So we've taken the approach of putting forward safeguards which are the complementary to the totality of the agreement.
SPEERS: I want to get to those details but this is an important point. If those changes aren't changing the actual deal, can you now say you will vote for the China Free Trade Agreement?
WONG: What we will want to do is to support the agreement with these changes. So, we want these changes to migration arrangements which provide proper safeguards for Australian jobs as part of bipartisan support for the China Free Trade Agreement.
SPEERS: One is going conditional on the other.
WONG: I'm not going to get into - I think you and I have had this conversation before, fundamentally-
SPEERS: Why can't you answer that though, its a pretty important question.
WONG: It is, but my focus is on getting bipartisan agreement to our amendments which will enable bipartisan agreement to the China Free Trade Agreement.
SPEERS: Okay, but if you dont get the bipartisan agreement on your changes, what happens to the China Free Trade Agreement?
WONG: I'm not going to, with respect, entertain that, because weve got a very clear focus. We think these are reasonable, sensible amendments. It's a test for Malcolm Turnbull. He says this is the new era of adult government, bipartisanship-
SPEERS: It is for Labor too though.
WONG: It's bipartisan politics, he says hes prepared to look to the national interest, well this is a test for him. I think we've, in good faith, put things on the table which don't require the Government to renegotiate the agreement. That would have been a very different matter.
So I do welcome, I'll say this, I welcome Andrew Robb's comments today. I think they are responsible and certainly we're prepared to have a conversation with him.
SPEERS: Let's go through some of the detail. Firstly on the Investment Facilitation Agreements, they are already in the Immigration Department guidelines, the Government points out, a requirement there has to be labour market testing before you bring in a foreign worker. You want to make that in legislation.
WONG: We want real safeguards. Safeguards that are on a coloured piece of paper that Peter Dutton printed off in his office, he printed off in his office when the Government started to get questions on this. It's not what I call real safeguards.
SPEERS: Those are the same departmental guidelines you had in government.
WONG: Yes, but we didn't put in place a trade agreement which had Investment Facilitation Agreements, that is work agreements, like they have and we didn't put in place a trade market agreement which removed labour market testing for the level of workers that they have. Let's be clear, a very different sort of trade agreement.
SPEERS: So, the guidelines aren't strong enough?
WONG: We say, we don't think it is an adequate safeguard for Australian jobs to rely on a printed colour flowchart that Peter Duttons printed off. We want this in the Parliament and we want to see those safeguards and have some confidence in them. This is a very important economic point, everyone agrees that temporary skilled migration is about skill shortages. This ensures that thats the case.
SPEERS: Either way, it seems you both agree that market testing should be there, whether it's guidelines or the stronger legislation. It would seem there's agreement on the principle. Second, you want to increase the minimum pay for temporary skilled migrants up to, it's not a big increase, but up to $57,000 and then index it.
WONG: Correct.
SPEERS: I want to ask, index it to what?
WONG: Average weekly ordinary time earnings. Basically what were putting back in place is what Labor had. This Government stopped the indexation and so we've seen an erosion over the last couple of years of the value of this, which is actually a wages floor. This is the minimum wage that someone who's coming in under these arrangements would have to be paid in order to be eligible for the visa.
So we say, look, lets bring it back to a more reasonable level and let's index it so it's not the whim of the government of the day deciding to freeze it, like Michaelia Cash did.
SPEERS: Then the third change and I guess this is the one I'm most curious about. You want skilled workers like electricians to have an Australian licence before they can get a visa. How do you get an Australian license to be an electrician if you're in China?
WONG: Sure, the fundamental principle behind this aspect of the changes is to recognise, frankly, what Andrew Robb said. He said, look, there's no safety issue, despite the fact we're getting rid of mandatory skill assessments. There's no safety issue because the States and Territories regulated it. A number of people have said to us there's always enforcement issues, sometimes these departments aren't resourced as well. So, the logic behind what we're proposing is that you link the State or Territory licence to your visa criteria and conditions. You need to have the licence in order to do the work, you need-
SPEERS: -Can though get a licence without a visa though? Its a chicken and egg-
WONG: -We can work through the sequencing, whether they have to show the department that they could get a licence and then demonstrate that they have. These are details that we're happy to work through.
SPEERS: It sounds like a bit of red tape though, with respect, if you don't know how youd actually do it.
WONG: We're not in government and we wouldn't have put these things into the agreement without sorting through these issues. But it's not red tape if you rely on the occupational licensing arrangements which are critical for consumer safety and consumer confidence. That is not unreasonable.
SPEERS: For an electrician, a big Chinese investor wants to bring into Australia, again, what do they do? They have to try and get a licence while they're trying to get a visa?
WONG: We are saying that there should be, as part of your visa conditions and your visa criteria - so both under the issuing of the visa and also your continued holding of the visa - a linkage to the holding of the occupational licence for the relevant State or Territory, that you can't work unless you have that licence and that there are mechanisms in there for the Immigration Department to be informed that you have got that licence.
I'm happy to talk to Andrew Robb and Peter Dutton about the process by which you do that, but the principle is what is important. Its saying were not going to say oh by the way it's fine, State and Territories regulate it. We say no, if people are coming in on that basis we should, frankly, strengthen the relationship between your visa and the holding of that the licence.
SPEERS: And with this and all of the changes, they don't just apply to the Chinese, do they?
WONG: Correct. We've said, and this is important, the two principles that we understand were necessary, one: you can't rewrite the agreement, but the second is that these are non-discriminatory changes.
SPEERS: Let me put to you one of the concerns raised by the Australian Industry Group. They say that the AI Group would not support any proposal that would compel employers to direct those engaged on 457 visas to unions. Are you suggesting that 457 visa workers who come in, migrant workers, should be directed to a union?
WONG: I'm not quite sure what AIG is referencing there. I'm happy to have a conversation with them. If they're referencing the overseas worker support plan which we have talked about in our amendments, which is trying to recognise the very real public policy problem there has been demonstrated, that there is exploitation of overseas workers in the Australian labour market, 7-Eleven is one example. We've seen a few, in which we say people should be advised of who they can go to to ascertain their wages and conditions. Maybe that's it, I don't know, I'm happy to have a conversation with AI Group.
But I think it isn't unreasonable to say we should ensure that people coming in know who they go to, to ascertain their rights.
SPEERS: Final question, we've seen of a lot of advertising from a number of unions with their real concerns about this China Free Trade Agreement. Pretty strong language from some in Labor as well, about what this is going to mean - Chinese workers taking your jobs. From what we've seen produced today, this afternoon, from Labor, are you now confident this will actually go through this year?
WONG: We understand the economic benefit for it going through this year. There's a broader economic benefit of the Free Trade Agreement with China with the appropriate safeguards, but there's obviously a real financial benefit to it going through this year. That's why weve put forward these proposals at this point. I hope that Andrew Robb and Malcolm Turnbull can look to the national interests and sit down with us and have a constructive discussion.
SPEERS: But you're no longer saying things like lift that threshold for Investment Facilitation Agreements above $150 million?
WONG: As I've said and I think I've been very consistent. We wouldnt have done this agreement in the terms that have been done, but the agreement is here, our job as the responsible Opposition is to find ways to safeguard Australian jobs in a way that enables the agreement to gain bipartisan support.
SPEERS: Shadow Trade Minister Penny Wong, thank you.
WONG: Good to be with you.